Bedlam at Heathrow

[Churchill]

He didn't say airliner, he said airplane.... the Fokker 50 can be vomit inducing in weather that a larger airliner would slice through.

That is not a controlled manoeuvre. I was once onboard a 747 that "fell" 5,000 feet due to a pocket of turbulence. Again, an uncontrolled manoeuvre!

A bank to the left or right is controlled and its angle regulated.

[WotNxt]

Personally, I think this crash has some striking similarities with this one a few years back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

"[the pilot] also reported that the engines didn't respond to his throttle input as he attempted to increase power."

[AtW]

You may experience a sudden yaw moment if an engine fails, but that isn't a bank.

Yeah, that's a relief

[Churchill]

Personally, I think this crash has some striking similarities with this one a few years back:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_296

"[the pilot] also reported that the engines didn't respond to his throttle input as he attempted to increase power."

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

[Ardesco]

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

When thinking of aircraft to fly in as a passenger I always remember what a contractor i worked with once told me (She was using contracting to fund her private pilots license).

Airbus planes don't have a physical connection to the controls, only an electronic one. So if your electrics fail in an airbus you're ****ed!!!!

[WotNxt]

Different aircraft, different Autothrottle.

On a 777, the pilot can override the autothrottle by moving the throttle levers and maintaining pressure. Once the pilot removes pressure from the throttle levers the autothrottle will regain control. The autothrottle in the case of a 777 moves the throttle levers by means of a servo to increase/decrease power. In the case of an airbus the throttle servo is used to reflect the change in power setting, not to instigate it.

Churchill - In "hth" mode!

I do not doubt what you say. However the similarities of circumstance are there.

My suspicion is a software fault in the fly-by-wire systems which caused either a failure to respond to the request for more power or even OVERRODE the request for more power as the system "believed" that throttling up at that precise moment/place in the flight envelope was the wrong thing to do! This was widely speculated as the cause for the ealier crash.

Of course there could be many many other explanations, what with aircraft systems being so complex. I guess we'll need to wait for the investigation findings to know what really happened.

[Churchill]

I do not doubt what you say. However the similarities of circumstance are there.

My suspicion is a software fault in the fly-by-wire systems which caused either a failure to respond to the request for more power or even OVERRODE the request for more power as the system "believed" that throttling up at that precise moment/place in the flight envelope was the wrong thing to do! This was widely speculated as the cause for the ealier crash.

Of course there could be many many other explanations, what with aircraft systems being so complex. I guess we'll need to wait for the investigation findings to know what really happened.

Ok, different aircraft, different manufacturers, different autothrottle methods and different software.

Now, where's the similarity again?

Oh yeah, I forgot, they've both got wings and engines.

If you read what I posted you will see that the autothrottle system on a 777 cannot override the pilot. The pilot on the 777 moved the throttle levers to increase power - the engines did not respond.

If Boeing thought it was software, don't you think that every 777 with those engines would now be on the ground?

[WotNxt]

Ok, different aircraft, different manufacturers, different autothrottle methods and different software.

Now, where's the similarity again?

Oh yeah, I forgot, they've both got wings and engines.

If you read what I posted you will see that the autothrottle system on a 777 cannot override the pilot. The pilot on the 777 moved the throttle levers to increase power - the engines did not respond.

If Boeng thought it was software, don't you think that every 777 with those engines would now be on the ground?

I said "similarities of circumstance". Stop getting your knickers in a twist!