Reply to: So Microsoft have done it

[2uk]

Alright , you are right, I am not very fond of MS u know..

[AtW]

Sun / AOL were sort of partners on this one, i think.

I think not - there are no good links between AOL and Sun, they are totallly different markets/companies. The sidelink was when AOL sold Netscape line of webservers to Sun.

[2uk]

What does that have to do with Sun?

In any case, a bundled product has more value for the consumer - in most other industries bundling is a common and natural practice, why should software be different?

Sun / AOL were sort of partners on this one, i think.

Most other industries , my friend , don't have the phemomena Microsoft , so you cannot compare. To be honest I don't know if this monopoly is for good or bad.

[bored]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape

What does that have to do with Sun?

In any case, a bundled product has more value for the consumer - in most other industries bundling is a common and natural practice, why should software be different?

[2uk]

After the Microsoft antitrust case found that Microsoft held and had abused monopoly power, AOL filed suit against it for damages.[9] This suit was settled in May 2003 when Microsoft paid US $750 million to AOL and agreed to share some technologies, including granting AOL a license to use and distribute Internet Explorer royalty-free for seven years.[10][11] This was considered to be the death knell for Netscape.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape

[bored]

If you have missed , Sun a couple of years ago had a successful case against Microosft. The case was that MS has not disclosed enough information about Windows internals making Sun's product less , less , less... capable of working correctly on Windows.

The lawsuit had nothing to do with Windows internals. It was a trademark infringement lawsuit - Microsoft claimed that their implementation was Java-compatible while it was not (I think some features like JNI or RMI were missing in Microsoft's Java).

[AtW]

The case was that MS has not disclosed enough information about Windows internals making Sun's product less , less , less... capable of working correctly on Windows.

Microsoft is not obliged to tell anyone anything about internals - if you think there is some secret API then hire good engineers with debuggers who will uncover it and publish the results. If Microsoft's own tools use this API then you can easily intercept it.

[2uk]

This is one of the biggest rubbish myths out there - secret APIs that made Microsoft stuff better.

If you have missed , Sun a couple of years ago had a successful case against Microosft. The case was that MS has not disclosed enough information about Windows internals making Sun's product less , less , less... capable of working correctly on Windows.

[AtW]

Or Windows had a secret feature ...

This is one of the biggest rubbish myths out there - secret APIs that made Microsoft stuff better.

[2uk]

[QUOTE=thunderlizard;403412]I used Netscape up until 3 or 4 years ago, when they released a version that had the hugest memory leak I've ever seen QUOTE]

Or Windows had a secret feature ...

[AtW]

Netscape were the ones who lost out to FireFox through ludicrous decisions.

Netscape did not exist at this point - there was brand Netscape and a handful of people employed by AOL, but they did not have a clue much like AOL did not have a clue when they bought Netscape in the first place.

Good thing is that they funded Mozilla however - otherwise we'd be stuck with IE.

[d000hg]

Netscape's foul-up is web-known and their own fault. MS ensured they are the dominant browser but Netscape were the ones who lost out to FireFox through ludicrous decisions.

[AtW]

Court case had wrong vector of attack - they somehow tried to argue that bundling IE was anti-competitive whereas it was 100% Microsoft decision to do so, what WAS anti-competitive is Microsoft's threats to remove Windows license from OEMs who would bundle Netscape as well - now THAT was 100% illegal action by Microsoft and this is what prosecution should have focused on.

[lilelvis2000]

The court case was just for show. Microsoft stalled until it didn't matter..It was a win win for them.

[thunderlizard]

I used Netscape up until 3 or 4 years ago, when they released a version that had the hugest memory leak I've ever seen (that must have been v4 - thanks AtW). They were good for a while but threw it all away long ago.

Michael Lewis's book about Jim Clark is a thumping good read though, and a great way to relive the 90s.