Reply to: oh dear™: Budget backlash

[Troll]

Well stop feeding her sprouts then.

is that better troll?

[DaveB]

Yer mum.

Well stop feeding her sprouts then.

is that better troll?

[Troll]

Yer bum.

That's better

[Troll]

Coal isn't a single homogenous material, it's actually a carbon matrix containing a wide range of volatile organic compounds locked into a solid form. The two processes discussed above both have the same kind of effect. They both extract those compounds from the coal leaving the carbon behind. The methane is just one of the things that gets extracted and then broken down to release the hydropgen it contains.

Can we please stop with the sensible answers!

[DBA_bloke]

Ah, I see. So the carbon isn't burnt after all. Where does the methane come from?

Yer bum.

[DaveB]

Coal isn't a single homogenous material, it's actually a carbon matrix containing a wide range of volatile organic compounds locked into a solid form. The two processes discussed above both have the same kind of effect. They both extract those compounds from the coal leaving the carbon behind. The methane is just one of the things that gets extracted and then broken down to release the hydropgen it contains.

[wendigo100]

The 2 processes detailed above result in hydrogen gas, which is as clean as it gets when burnt. So, less energy per tonne of coal for us, compread to burning coal as-is, but no nasty pollutants in the atmosphere. HTH.

Ah, I see. So the carbon isn't burnt after all. Where does the methane come from?

[DBA_bloke]

My little brain is still fuzzy on this. Probably addled by age, but anyway...

I thought the vast majority of energy from burning coal is due to the oxidation of carbon.

If you take the carbon out of the equation, as you are both suggesting, where does the energy come from?

The 2 processes detailed above result in hydrogen gas, which is as clean as it gets when burnt. So, less energy per tonne of coal for us, compread to burning coal as-is, but no nasty pollutants in the atmosphere. HTH.

[wendigo100]

My little brain is still fuzzy on this. Probably addled by age, but anyway...

I thought the vast majority of energy from burning coal is due to the oxidation of carbon.

If you take the carbon out of the equation, as you are both suggesting, where does the energy come from?

[Troll]

What do you mean, coke?

What I don't understand is how you can remove carbon dioxide before it is produced in the act of combustion.

Might be barking up the wrong tree but:

Carbon emissions from coal can be reduced by almost 80% by simply repurposing and adapting an existing 150 year old technology, namely the coke oven, still used to derive coke from coal for use in smelting iron into steel. An updated thermal volatile extraction (TVE) process can now instead be used to separate the volatile gases from coal for energy, while leaving the carbon as a solid in the form of coke. The resulting solid carbon can be used as a building material, industrial feedstock, or simply buried. The remaining carbon emissions from coal could be completely eliminated using another existing technology, thermal decomposition of methane (TDM), to separate the hydrogen from methane, leaving solid carbon by vapor deposition.

HTH

[DaveB]

Pre-combustion capture (IGCC - Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle) Involves reacting fuel with oxygen, air, or (less usually) steam, to produce a gas consisting mainly of carbon monoxide and hydrogen. The carbon monoxide is reacted with steam to produce hydrogen and CO2, which is separated. If used with oil or coal additional equipment is needed to remove impurities such as sulphur compounds. The resulting hydrogen gas then becomes the fuel for the power station while the CO2 can be removed and used in other industrial applications or sequestered using exiting technologies.

Note : the only reason I know this is cos I used to work with a guy who helped develop the technology for it.

[wendigo100]

coke?

What do you mean, coke?

What I don't understand is how you can remove carbon dioxide before it is produced in the act of combustion.

[Troll]

Can someone explain what the author means by "pre-combustion" carbon capture technology at coal-fired power stations?

I've seen it described in newspapers as "capturing the carbon dioxide before combustion".

Impossible, shirley?

coke?

[wendigo100]

Can someone explain what the author means by "pre-combustion" carbon capture technology at coal-fired power stations?

I've seen it described in newspapers as "capturing the carbon dioxide before combustion".

Impossible, shirley?

[threaded]

You make it sound like a problem?