Reply to: Are Labour dying a slow death?

[daviejones]

A Labour voter. Someone who doesn't understand politics.

READ above, I a NOT a Labour voter...

[King Cnvt]

Are you STILL going on? Jeez...no I did not write that myself as I have no real interest in politics...

A Labour voter. Someone who doesn't understand politics.

[daviejones]

So Davie did you write all that yourself or did you get some help?

Are you STILL going on? Jeez...no I did not write that myself as I have no real interest in politics...

[BoredBloke]

So Davie did you write all that yourself or did you get some help?

[AtW]

1 party dictatorships which have done well economically:-

1. Nazi germany 1933-1939
2. Fascist Italy 1928-1939
3. "Communist" China 1978 until today (average 7% growth per year in that timespan compared to 2% for UK's economy)

4. Soviet Russia: 2000-present

[daviejones]

Yeah, I want these guys in power....


The successor to emerge from this contest was the relatively unknown figure of John Major, the candidate thought most able to unify a divided and traumatised party. Major abandoned the 'poll tax' and presented a more 'caring' image, and support for the Conservatives improved enough for him to hold on to a narrow majority in the general election of April 1992. However, this margin was steadily eroded during the following parliament, and by 1997 his administration was clinging on by its fingertips.

The Major government of 1992-1997 was a painful period for the Conservative Party, and opinion poll ratings slumped to record lows following the economic fiasco of 'Black Wednesday' in 1992. The most serious problems were caused by a recession which hit Conservative support in southern England, a collapse of normal party unity over the increasingly contentious issue of Europe, and 'sleaze' - a string of personal scandals involving Conservative ministers and MPs. Press hostility and a modernised Labour opposition prevented the Conservatives from recovering when the economic position improved, and on 1 May 1997 they suffered their third and final sweeping defeat of the twentieth century. Only 165 MPs survived, and Major at once resigned the leadership; in his place, the Party selected its youngest leader in modern times, William Hague.

The Conservatives were unable to recover ground during the 1997-2001 Parliament. The party remained unpopular with the public, whilst the Labour government’s careful management of the economy meant that it survived any other difficulties without lasting damage. Hague followed a more ‘Euro-sceptic’ policy, ruling out joining the single European currency. This caused tensions in the party but also led to its greatest success in the period, doubling its seats to 36 in the European Parliament elections of June 1999. However, concentration on Europe was less effective in the June 2001 general election, and Conservative hopes of at least a partial recovery were dashed. 166 MPs were elected, only one more than in 1997, and on the morning after the poll Hague announced his resignation

[The Lone Gunman]

poll tax

Undermined by left wing activists. Labour councils ramping up bills and blaming the new tory tax. Riots in the streets sponsored and supported by left wing groups and the unions. It is a shame that illegal activity had such an effect on policy.

grey man

So what? He steered our country through a period of global down turn with aplomb. He also sorted out Northern Ireland.

Black Wednesday

Speculators not the Tories. Also the switch on of a new faster computer based trading system which automatically dumped stock didnt help

recession

A global thing and the UK came through it swimmingly with an economy so healthy and robust that even though Golden Clown has been tearing lumps out of it for 10 years it is still standing.
I am only glad that NL will still be in power when it collapses though I would rather we had never reached this stage.

[daviejones]

Poor daviejones.

I pity da fool.

Hahaha...Head CNVT has spoken...an apt name.

[King Cnvt]

Poor daviejones.

I pity da fool.

[mace]

Change the system not the party

Or don't do anything and save our time thinking about politics.

Italy's had about 40 governments since the war so was essentially ungoverned for a large part of the end of the 21st century. Their growth during that period wasn't dissimilar to the UK. This kind of proves that so long as governments don't implement crazy fool policies, a countries economy in the absence of innovation will tick along at a steady rate.

1 party dictatorships which have done well economically:-

1. Nazi germany 1933-1939
2. Fascist Italy 1928-1939
3. "Communist" China 1978 until today (average 7% growth per year in that timespan compared to 2% for UK's economy)

The first 2 stimulated their economies by massive state investment ( a lot of it in the military obviously) - socialist policies essentially - and China's succeeded by liberating large chunks of the economy from state control and encouraging foreign investors (with low taxes) who are of the belief that there's a 1.4 billion consumer sector to exploit there - extreme capitalism.

This week I saw 2 interesting things about China:-

1. 26 year old woman is richest in China (net worth $16.6 billion)
2. You can buy a good looking 16 year old wife in Yunnan province for 10000 RMB (~£600)

One wonders how long it will be before China tears itself apart.

[daviejones]

My point, way back before you and that dumb dog started getting up yourself was that the Tories are no better than Labour and in a few years people will be slating them in exactly the same way. No government will be able to please everybody and no government is beyond failure...

Let's all hug a hoodie and forget...because even hoodies need love!!!...

[BoredBloke]

Is that the best you can do? !8 years to go at and that is all you can come up with.

"Where do you start is the question, do we go back to the "poll tax, instigated by Thatcher, then dumped by Major"

So were the rates fairer than the poll tax? Both systems had massive problems with them. I'd prefer a poll tax, at least each adult pays. Is it fair to have a family of 4 wage earning adults living in a house and being charged the same as a single person living next door?

Is the system we have now any better? It's a half way house between the old rates and the poll tax.

"Then we have the "grey man", John Major, who in 5 years managed to drag the Tories ratings to an almost unbelievable low. "

But still managed to win one election!

"Maybe we need a Labour "Black Wednesday" to even the score"

Which Labour fully supported. The government of the day, and had it been Labour would have had to prop up the pound in exactly the same way the Tories did. It was one of the rules of the system. Also, the losses made on that day were not as huge as most people say. As I understand it, the government bought sterling to prop it up - huge amounts of it. Once it was all over and the price recovered, that currency was sold at the higher price - compare this to Brown who sold off our gold at historically low rates, despite being warned not to.

"Or maybe a recession to match 1992? Or was it '93...seems such a long time ago. "

Recessions come and go - it's a cyclical thing. Labour lucked out when they got into power as they took over an economy which was growing and benefiting from low inflation. All Brown did was maintain the Tory spending plans up to 99 and then go on a massive spending spree where he poured OUR money into the public sector and got jack sh1t in return. But to compound things he then embarked on the whole PFI thing which means that we now have huge spending commitments which stretch far off into the future. We already have cases where councils have PFI schools but no kids to fill them - but they have to continue to pay for them due to the contracts in place. So now we have a PBR where Brown predicted a £4bln surplus but which is now showing borrowing of £12bln. A £16bln difference!

[daviejones]

could not be could not be classed as one.

Not really sure what you mean by this!!!

[daviejones]

Are you our new CUK Labour spin doctor? we seem to have seen your predecessors off pretty well so far. Anyway doc I have this pain in the arse. Would you mind taking a look for me?

Not a Labour fan either...but find the Conservatives too much to bear.

And that pain in you arse, take the butt plug out dumbo!!!!!

[TheFaQQer]

A buffoon, well that's me told. Next I will be a cad, or a bounder...oh no!!!

I would assume that taking the strict etymological definition of a cad, that you, sir, could not be could not be classed as one.