Reply to: Tube Strike gggrrr

[DBA_bloke]

Yes. Tell you what if there was anything in his actions why have they now suspended the strike into it's 2nd day without winning anything extra. Not a bean, nadda, zippo - exactly what they got.

There is no reason for him to hide anything, to cost London Businesses £50million.

You win. Bob's a pinko; his only reason for existing is to destroy London; all Tube workers are lazy, grabbing lefties who simply don't understand that the world has moved on; getting into work & back today is more important than silly things like the future of London's fastest and currently amazingly safe transport system.

Good luck on your Tube journeys in future.

[zathras]

You seem to be perfectly happy to accept that Bob's in 1970s Wildcat Strike mode, but not even slightly concerned that there may just be something worthwhile at the root of his actions.

Yes. Tell you what if there was anything in his actions why have they now suspended the strike into it's 2nd day without winning anything extra. Not a bean, nadda, zippo - exactly what they got.

There is no reason for him to hide anything, to cost London Businesses £50million.

[sasguru]

Public ownership just might work nowadays.
Just don't hire any lazy feckless Brits.
Plenty of Poles about who'll work all day forra fiver.

[DBA_bloke]

What he actually wants is an end to PPP and the transferral of ownership and maintenance of the underground to a public body. That's the only way that they can get the assurances that they claim are still outstanding.

They can't get assurances about what will happen to jobs in the future, because no-one knows who will be owning the contract, or how many people they are employing. The administrator will have gone by then, so surely any assurances given now are worthless anyway!

So, why doesn't the administrator give everyone a guarantee of a pay rise, job for life, and a bumper pension, and then just say "oh it's nothing to do with me - talk to the new company?" That first part is what RMT want - I'm sure that they don't want the second part to happen though.

I'm going to something very horrible: Public Ownership.

The Tube is, until Star Trek-like transportation is with us, London's fastest method of traversing the city and its surrounding areas. It's fundamental to Londpn functioning. Allowing the dollar to rule it is stupid. It's a tool to generate money, by allowing folk to get to work. Obvious stuff, I know.

Wouldn't it be pretty smart for the UK to take the Tube out of the Private sector, and put it under direct control of the Mayoral Office? I am sure this has been mooted before... but Ken was Public Enemy No. 1 back then. Now he's proven that London hasn't descended into a Hieronymus Bosch nightnare under his captaincy, maybe, just maybe it's time to have a rethink.

[TheFaQQer]

What he actually wants is an end to PPP and the transferral of ownership and maintenance of the underground to a public body. That's the only way that they can get the assurances that they claim are still outstanding.

They can't get assurances about what will happen to jobs in the future, because no-one knows who will be owning the contract, or how many people they are employing. The administrator will have gone by then, so surely any assurances given now are worthless anyway!

So, why doesn't the administrator give everyone a guarantee of a pay rise, job for life, and a bumper pension, and then just say "oh it's nothing to do with me - talk to the new company?" That first part is what RMT want - I'm sure that they don't want the second part to happen though.

[DBA_bloke]

No it was Bob Crowe being a arrogant little twerp. I read the letter in last nights paper on the assurances given by Metronet and as far as I could work out those assurances were just as much as was possible in the world at the moment. It is not as if most perm workers these days can have the guarantees that Bob Crowe seemed to want. Copper Bottomed guarantees - the man is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I think Bob Crow probably has more info than he can go public with

I doubt it - why not just tell us what it is.

What will happen is governed under the original PPP - that will mean an auction to find a new bidder, that may be Tubelines, it may be Tfl. Surely any such transfer would be covered under the TUPE regulations.

So there was no need to strike. Bob Crowe was just being the same militant dinosaur and an arrogant twerp. He disrupted everybody else's journey for no benefit whatsoever.

You seem to be perfectly happy to accept that Bob's in 1970s Wildcat Strike mode, but not even slightly concerned that there may just be something worthwhile at the root of his actions.

This isn't some back street newsagent in trouble: if the Tube services are compromised, then London suffers. I don't even work in London, but can see as plain as day that if London suffers, then, eventually, so do I. It's basic stuff.

If Bob's utterly wrong - then I would damn him along with everyone else, but I doubt that he is 100% wrong. Sure, he'll try to milk it, but the days of Union bosses getting their way and parading about like cockerals are long gone. I suspect he's (shock!) doing his bit for those he represents.

Also, he may well have reservations he can't publicise - he'd hardly go squealing to the Media with a tale he couldn't verify with documentation. Not given that he and the Tube workers are now being crapped on by everyone and his dog.

If he's right, and it does all go pear-shaped a couple of years down the line (no pun), the first target for London's ire will be... the staff. And Bob. Guaranteed.

[~Craig~]

Having previously worked for LUL/TfL I know how hugely wasteful and inefficient it is with tax-payers money. I'm sure you could sack half of them and still be no worse off! Most of them seem to be sat around waiting for their pensions......

[zathras]

Well-spotted on the spelling mistake!
I think Bob Crow probably has more info than he can go public with - maybe a hunch, maybe a whisper. Whatever. He and the other Union bods must think there's a likelihood of something sinister. And who could blame them?

Whatever it is, an important thing to consider is that running the Tube is not as simple as running a Hornby train set. The bods doing the work know their trade, and it'd be a terrible deal for London if the classic redundancies, followed by a complete overhaul of methodologies, followed by utterly crap service and safety were to be the result.

Also, Red (Blue) Ken as Mayor has the ear of Central Government. He could, I feel sure, get some sort of assurances,

No it was Bob Crowe being a arrogant little twerp. I read the letter in last nights paper on the assurances given by Metronet and as far as I could work out those assurances were just as much as was possible in the world at the moment. It is not as if most perm workers these days can have the guarantees that Bob Crowe seemed to want. Copper Bottomed guarantees - the man is living in cloud cuckoo land.

I think Bob Crow probably has more info than he can go public with

I doubt it - why not just tell us what it is.

What will happen is governed under the original PPP - that will mean an auction to find a new bidder, that may be Tubelines, it may be Tfl. Surely any such transfer would be covered under the TUPE regulations.

So there was no need to strike. Bob Crowe was just being the same militant dinosaur and an arrogant twerp. He disrupted everybody else's journey for no benefit whatsoever.

[DBA_bloke]

morale

I agree with you that safety should never be compromised, and I think the union members are better at ensuring this than management whose first priority is the balance sheet.

But in the case of this strike it appears that the union already had all the assurances it could reasonably expect to receive. As far as I could tell (he wasn't very clear about it) Bob Crow was arguing that the administrators hadn't given them any assurances about what would happen after the time in administration was over. But how could they, given that by definition they aren't responsible for that?

Well-spotted on the spelling mistake!
I think Bob Crow probably has more info than he can go public with - maybe a hunch, maybe a whisper. Whatever. He and the other Union bods must think there's a likelihood of something sinister. And who could blame them?

Whatever it is, an important thing to consider is that running the Tube is not as simple as running a Hornby train set. The bods doing the work know their trade, and it'd be a terrible deal for London if the classic redundancies, followed by a complete overhaul of methodologies, followed by utterly crap service and safety were to be the result.

Also, Red (Blue) Ken as Mayor has the ear of Central Government. He could, I feel sure, get some sort of assurances,

[NickFitz]

moral is lowered

morale

I agree with you that safety should never be compromised, and I think the union members are better at ensuring this than management whose first priority is the balance sheet.

But in the case of this strike it appears that the union already had all the assurances it could reasonably expect to receive. As far as I could tell (he wasn't very clear about it) Bob Crow was arguing that the administrators hadn't given them any assurances about what would happen after the time in administration was over. But how could they, given that by definition they aren't responsible for that?

[DBA_bloke]

The Unions (who represent real, living people) are concerned, primarily, about job losses. If your immediate response is " Feck 'em", may I remind you of the sort of thing that happens when jobs are cut/moral is lowered by pared-to-the-bone staffing levels in public rail transport: Hatfield, and the long, long list of similar nasties and near misses. There's a minimum number of bods needed to make sure that the Tube actually works safely. I don't think I'd be too happy careering under the capital in rolling stock and on track that was being maintained by the bare minumum of staff legally allowed, etc.

[NickFitz]

As we approached Tottenham Court Road this morning, the driver came on the Tannoy to say "There is a service on the Central line, but probably with long delays. Still, travelling on the Northern line, you'll be used to that."

[wendigo100]

Unfortunately there were no nubile young ladies squeezing up against me last night on the train.

It wasn't crowded enough - all the underground oiks must have used shanks's pony or buses. Oh well, I got most of the crossword done I suppose.

[TheFaQQer]

Called off for today?

Yes, but it'll take most of the day to get the trains where they need to before they can start using them again.

And the RMT are meeting on Friday to see about next weeks strike.

[Ruprect]

IDLE LAZY DEGENERATES