Reply to: Why be just ????

[Gibbon]

If we do something our conscience disagrees with, we feel bad regardless of how we are treated as a result of this action.

And the converse is true also.

A man should be just as it makes him happier, being just is a virtue of the soul.

An unjust man can appear to others by devious means to be just but he will be torn unless he is a simpleton.

[Old Greg]

Agreed, but what about variants in 'societal norms' e.g. in parts of the US it is considered 'Just' to be an advocate of the death penalty but in most of europe the opposite is generally true.

You've just described a good example of where there is no clear consensus on what is just, and then politics (liberal anti-death penalty, authoritarian pro-death penalty) or religion (RC church anti-death penalty, some evangelical Christians pro-death penalty) get involved to argue the toss.

Other examples are:

Is it just for everyone to have free qulaity healthcare OR is it just that people take individual responsibility for themselves?

One of the funny things is how quickly attitudes can change on the justness of behaviour, e.g. attitudes to wife-beating and homosexuality.

Anyway, a bit off-topic now, sorry.

[shoes]

Nope, because then you're only being Just to benefit yourself.

It is beneficial to us as a species to treat eachother well. We do this automatically without the guidance of an authority figure (government, religion) due to our own conscience. If we do something our conscience disagrees with, we feel bad regardless of how we are treated as a result of this action. Our conscience is a mechanism that has evolved as it benefits our species to treat eachother well.

[thunderlizard]

Do unto others...not religious based

"Do unto others..." is indeed out of the mouth of the great JC.

Matthew 7.12

[DaveB]

The rain it falls upon the Just,
And also on the Unjust fella,
But it mostly falls upon the Just,
Cos the Unjust's got the Just's umbrella.

[wobbegong]

Common sense really, if you pi55 someone off they'll pi55 you off, and there's always some bigger than you, who'll do it much more enthusiastically.

[MrRobin]

It's mutually benificial to both parties

But if one is unjust then he benefits more. However, if both are unjust then both suffer, so it's a gamble - basic game theory.

Prisoner's Dilemma

[Rantor]

But round-dodging comes from a common societal view (Richard Dawkins would argue biologically hard-wired (or maybe socially hard-wired, can't remember) but let's not go there) of what constitutes fair play and cheating. And this applies in lots of behaviours.

Agreed, but what about variants in 'societal norms' e.g. in parts of the US it is considered 'Just' to be an advocate of the death penalty but in most of europe the opposite is generally true.

[Troll]

Nope, because then you're only being Just to benefit yourself.

eh?

[Old Greg]

I would imagine that the definition of 'being just' is fairly subjective (other than round-dodging of course!)

But round-dodging comes from a common societal view (Richard Dawkins would argue biologically hard-wired (or maybe socially hard-wired, can't remember) but let's not go there) of what constitutes fair play and cheating. And this applies in lots of behaviours.

[Gibbon]

It's mutually benificial to both parties

Nope, because then you're only being Just to benefit yourself.

[Troll]

Yes but why???

Not religious based but seems a good way to me.... it also gives me the leeway to smack the feckers that want to do me harm.....

in short

It's mutually benificial to both parties

[Rantor]

There are other social factors that deal with unjustness. If you've got a rich mate who always 'forgets' his wallet when you go to the pub and then drinks expensive drinks at your expense all night every night, he has breached an unwritten social contract that governs our interactions with each other. You'll probably find a better friend pretty soon.

I would imagine that the definition of 'being just' is fairly subjective (other than round-dodging of course!)

[Churchill]

Yes but why???

For the good of mankind in general.

[Old Greg]

A man can still be unjust and stay within the legal framework. Do people really think about society as a whole when making moral decisions that affect their life?

There are other social factors that deal with unjustness. If you've got a rich mate who always 'forgets' his wallet when you go to the pub and then drinks expensive drinks at your expense all night every night, he has breached an unwritten social contract that governs our interactions with each other. You'll probably find a better friend pretty soon.