Reply to: Looking to hire a couple of grads with no IT experience

[KentPhilip]

Payback time on a bright graduate to cover support autonomously, in my experience is 6 months, getting them to think like an engineer not a student takes approx 20% of the time in the first 2 months. After that you can let them cope with most end user problems with only occasional guidance. To get a good all round support person takes a couple of years.
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Thanks for that Vetran. It is about getting them to think the right way isn't it.
Reminds me of when Clint Eastwood tried to fly the firefox and made a right hash of it until his mentor told him that he had to "think russian" (the language of the computer code that flew it) after which the plane flew with great ease and accuracy.

[KentPhilip]

This sound like another example of the abused becoming a serial abuser!

I bet you treat all contractors like dirt as well.

You may have a point there.
But firstly I havn't hardly got started yet - I'm still doing my permie job prior to the redundancy coming through, and secondly I will try to treat the contractors and graduates fairly, not like dirt.
Are there any web sites that describe a "code of conduct" as to how graduates and contractors ought to be treated - I would like to have a read of it if possible.

But nobody got rich without running a tight ship.

[2uk]

someone had an even smarter idea than you :

get those it graduates in india and let them come in UK (if you need numbers for UK : 70000 work visas), So you pay them even less. from what i have heard, the slaves work for free on week-ends (in business there is a golden rule : there is no free lunch)

this is not a myth : i just met hordes of indians this week. gives a bitter taste of things to come. they are looking after people to manage them.n

Good Luck hitting the news.

[sappatz]

indians

someone had an even smarter idea than you :

get those it graduates in india and let them come in UK (if you need numbers for UK : 70000 work visas), So you pay them even less. from what i have heard, the slaves work for free on week-ends (in business there is a golden rule : there is no free lunch)

this is not a myth : i just met hordes of indians this week. gives a bitter taste of things to come. they are looking after people to manage them.n

[Stan]

Herding a bunch of grads might be more trouble than it's worth.

[OwlHoot]

A little off topic. But I'm looking for ideas for places where I can find graduates who have a recent IT related degree but no IT experience. I employ them myself for a couple of months for a pittance, then sell them on to a company that is looking for people "with experience" thus making myself a good profit.

So you'll sort of break them in, and then sell them on down the line for a profit. I saw a documentary on that, and it seems the best place to buy and sell is at an auction in a coffee lounge at Heathrow airport.

[fzbucks]

Vetran: I agree with you. These days having a degree is no more than a glorified intelligence test. I'm sure there are many non-graduates who could do this job with their eyes shut. But punched cards even I don't go back that far. Wasn't the Magna carta printed on them? :-)

Clippy: My SQL DBA pimping idea is still on the cards. But the requirement in this thread is a new one. With the latest round of redundancies in my company half the support team has got the willies and up-sticks and left, leaving them rather short staffed. So I said to the soon-to-be-ex-boss that I have a cunning plan to replace them, which is this.

After all most support jobs can be done by monkeys, so perhaps recent graduates might be up to the task?

Sasguru: I could become a pimp I suppose. Trouble is I'd spend too much time sampling the merchandise, so they would never get out and work.

Gonzo: I'm not saying that recent graduates look at Tesco job board for jobs. But if they are looking for work they might be poor (I was) and look at Tesco boards for other things and then see my job.
Where do graduates who have been on the dole for a few months out of college look where I could advertise?

I know a lot of 'ex-support monkeys' as you put it who are now Service Delivery Managers/Directors, Infrastructure Consultants etc - everyone has to start somewhere.

If that's how you view potential candidates, perhaps you should stick to what you know - which doesn't seem to be too much!

I'm a "support monkey" who looks down on "code monkeys" and any other type of monkeys in IT

perhaps there should be a 'What breed of IT monkey are you thread' and we can all slag each others preffered trade off

[vetran]

As always good support staff are better than mediocre programmers.

Payback time on a bright graduate to cover support autonomously, in my experience is 6 months, getting them to think like an engineer not a student takes approx 20% of the time in the first 2 months. After that you can let them cope with most end user problems with only occasional guidance. To get a good all round support person takes a couple of years.

Also it all depends how well the organisation is set up, if its a mess as suggested then you will need a good monkey.

Support is fairly low paid so the margins will be low.

[freakydancer]

Oi! Less of it!. You need SysEngs/Admins and tech support staff to keep the kit going that you need for your code to run on.

Are there no code-crunching monkeys? If not, can't understand why Microsoft has to keep releasing Service Packs, patches and the like.

Little less 'professional' arrogance, please

Programmers are just glorified data entry clerks that write tulip applications and have to get the support people to bail them out when they all go tits up.

[Epiphone]

After all most support jobs can be done by monkeys, so perhaps recent graduates might be up to the task?

Unlike your fvcking genius self who doesn't have a clue where to begin. Perhaps those monkeys would be better off showing your good organ-grinding self where to begin. Dogfvcker.

[Buffoon]

A little off topic. But I'm looking for ideas for places where I can find graduates who have a recent IT related degree but no IT experience. I employ them myself for a couple of months for a pittance, then sell them on to a company that is looking for people "with experience" thus making myself a good profit.

I have the client. But I now need the graduates.

Two ideas I have at the moment: The "MCSE boot camp" schools - they are always looking for employers so that they can claim to prospective students that they can get placements into jobs.

Secondly the notice board at the local Tescos. That's where unemployed graduates look.

We were all recent graduates once (well apart from some of you who were hired directly into Logica, McKinsey or a big bank, but I digress) so it is also nice to be able to give folk a bit of a leg up (not to mention a leg over if she is female).

Thanks

This sound like another example of the abused becoming a serial abuser!

I bet you treat all contractors like dirt as well.

[Kyajae]

I was only joking about support professionals being monkeys. Some of the better ones are nearly as good as chimpanzees, or even gorillas.

Oi! Less of it!. You need SysEngs/Admins and tech support staff to keep the kit going that you need for your code to run on.

Are there no code-crunching monkeys? If not, can't understand why Microsoft has to keep releasing Service Packs, patches and the like.

Little less 'professional' arrogance, please

[Euro-commuter]

Vetran: I agree with you. These days having a degree is no more than a glorified intelligence test. I'm sure there are many non-graduates who could do this job with their eyes shut. But punched cards even I don't go back that far. Wasn't the Magna carta printed on them? :-)

Magna Carta was done on vellum. The hardware is still operational and the data still readable if you have someone who knows the language (which has been more widespread for more years even than COBOL).

[tim123]

Reed graduate website
milkround website
prospects.ac.uk

As someone else mentioned, accenture, kpmg etc all have stalls at the universities, so hang around uni's where IT degress are done.

I did a sandwich course (2yrs uni, 1 year placement, final year uni) and the entire year (130 people in my course alone, around 600 people across all IT courses) needed a job for 9-12months. Most of these paid about £11-£16k and a lot of these people went back to the same employer when they graduated. SPeak to uni's about this.

Most Unis have changed their courses so that the placement is optional. Those that get a placement take the year out, those that don't, do a straight three year course.

My neice is currently still looking for her placement year (not it IT) and has now accepted that she isn't going to find one before she has to decide whether to start year 3 or not. I think that she is in a majority in not having a placement.

tim

[KentPhilip]

He is bit slow on the uptake.

Stick your DB's sonny.

No I understand that being a pimp means being an agent.

But why not be a real pimp, and sample that merchandise hehe :-)