Reply to: MSC stuff in Telegraph

[Bigbird]

Interesting that HMRC's own staff think both IR35 and the new MSC regs are going to be extremely difficult to enforce....... last conversation I had with a compliance officer he said (genuine quote) "I don't know why they don't just slap an NI charge on dividends......."

Word in the MSC provider world at the moment seems to be that they are all just going to move to PSC and open individual bank accounts. Having read the draft documents I personally don't think this will cut it but general thinking amongst the providers is that it will take at least 18 months for them to bring a test case, by which time "someone" will have developed a more robust solution that they can all follow like sheep.

If I was them I'd be MUCH more worried about the 3rd party recovery legislation.

[threaded]

No. They just don't know what they are doing.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

[pisces]

Do you ever get the feeling that the government really, really doesn't like us?

No. They just don't know what they are doing.

[threaded]

Perpetual traveller: learn a bit of foreign language and only do 6 monthers in each country.

Met a Canadian who was doing just that, (and a few other dodgy things as well, but that's another story)

[BlasterBates]

The three day week only works for foreigners, where they fly to Jersey for a couple of days, and then are exempt from tax for their earnings abroad, i.e. in Jersey where they earn most of their money.

If you're British you can only spend on average 91 days in the country but up to 183 in any one tax year. So over a few years a three day week would put you way over the limit.

183 day rule is meant to allow foreigners to work for 6 months before being liable. You would then need to take an 18 month break before exploiting that one again.

[threaded]

I thought they had been saying: that the discussions were basically one sided with Gordos minions saying to stop it ASAP as we're going to retrospect it. IIRC one of the female ministerial flunkies was wittering on about "intention" to a previous law and that the intention argument would be used so it wouldn't really be retrospect... Semantics to you or me I would suggest.

[Ivor1]

All non criminal law is retrospectable. Criminal is stopped by virtue of the HRA.

HTH

To be honest I dont think we will know until the say, but I dont trust them as far as I could throw them. I did find this quote on a couple of site though saying it wouldnt be retro'd, see bit below 'non recoverable'

http://www.itcontractor.com/Articles...00&photopage=0

[threaded]

Oddly enough I know a few air crew types and they work through a Swiss agency. Live in Denmark, but don't pay any income taxes anywhere.

[Euro-commuter]

There is some kind of loophole that if you spend 3 days in a week in UK excluding the day of travel you are non-resident for tax purpose in UK . Saw some programme on telly about how the topshots avoid taxes this way.

If you spend less than 183 days in a single year, and less than 91 days per year on average (actually nights, for the UK), then you will normally be considered non-resident.

But not always: a pilot who spends less than 91 days per year in the UK was nevertheless recently judged resident, because the UK remained his base.

And do not think that what works for the rich will work for you.

[BoredBloke]

"I agree, this was always how I saw IR35 with the government responding to lobbying from the major players and trying to restructure the services market by making some suppliers (us) uncompetitive and deter entry to that market."

It's not just us! Their people know how much they are charged out at, so it's harder for the consultancies to keep hold of them - unless they could think of a way of reducing the opportunities.........................

[Rantor]

A "flexible" supply of workers who are nonetheless constrained to pay the "correct" tax by PAYE is exactly what the government wants. Having every contractor forced into working for EDS and Accenture is the ideal way to ensure this. I'm sure they consulted "industry representatives" and were told that this was so..

I agree, this was always how I saw IR35 with the government responding to lobbying from the major players and trying to restructure the services market by making some suppliers (us) uncompetitive and deter entry to that market.

Pay much less tax? Where would that be then?
More flexible vehicle? Not in most places I've worked.
Commute to Euroland? You mean remain resident in the UK? Then you still pay tax here.

Tsk, of course you can. If you work in a country for more than x days, you will sbe liable for paying your tax to the authoirites of the country where the work was carried out. Indeed some countries (the dutch) effectively force you down that route from day 1. Management companies, income splits etc. - these options are tolerated under some tax regimes.

[threaded]

But what about the cr*p about it being new legislation rather than re-interpretation and therefore not retrospecticable ?

All non criminal law is retrospectable. Criminal is stopped by virtue of the HRA.

HTH

[andy]

Please tell me how you can commute to work in the UK and get non residence status in the UK at the same time?

There is some kind of loophole that if you spend 3 days in a week in UK excluding the day of travel you are non-resident for tax purpose in UK . Saw some programme on telly about how the topshots avoid taxes this way.

[MickeyP]

Time to move to monaco just like many great business leaders in this country.
Commute to UK for work and get non residence status.

Please tell me how you can commute to work in the UK and get non residence status in the UK at the same time?

[youngguy]

What else would you do?

How will they find themselves in a fix? The people who are contractors won't disappear, they just won't be contractors any more. If it's no longer worth it to work as a one-person contractor, most will just go into employment. EDS and Accenture will take you on. Of course, you won't make so much.

And I'm sure that many agencies will be happy to become "software houses" paying you a salary of 35-40% of the billing rate. If you didn't like them as agents, wait till they're your boss!

Sorry, I meant I'd be in a fix as the EDS, Accetnure , Cap Gemini route is not one I would like top go down!

The gov should be in a fix...taxpayers should be asking why there are Accenture people working on Long term Gov projects for £1200 a day when a contractor would be on £500 or a perm civil servant on £200.