Reply to: Permie wants advice before switching

[lukemg]

Good advice has been given, if you are serious you need to start bouncing a carefully aligned CV at jobs for which you are a good match, forget the sending to agencies 'on-spec' if they haven't got a role they won't care.
Key thing to remember - IF you get a call back from an agent you have to convince them of a few things
1- You are absolutely committed to leaving the permie job, say they are downsizing/outsourcing and you need out etc, don't slag the place off.
2- You need to play down the notice period, tell them you are on 4 weeks but have holidays spare to reduce that to 2, or that because of (1) your boss has informally said he wouldn't keep you to 4. Some roles will wait but why take the risk.
3- You must be keen on the job/company and sound like you would interview ok.
Agents have been d1cked around by permies who want to test the water then mess their breaks when offered a 3 monther and turn it down. So they are wary of putting them forward, although this is countered by knowing they can skim a huge percentage off the rate and the newbie will still thank them for it.

[MartinF]

Thanks all for the great advice.

And for the pedants out there...

Thanks for all the great advice.

The ball is rolling...

Regards

M.

[Diestl]

I think you have a good skill-set (.NET), I found it no problem getting my first contract, hopefully the second will be as easy. I would say "Just Do It" if you worry about all the things that can go wrong you'll never make the jump. If you're good then you'll be fine.

[cojak]

Excellent post, that man.

Particularly like

Being a contractor is a great life if you have the right mentality, if not I can imagine it would be hell...and more importantly, your significant other must also have the right mentality

Never a truer word...

[NewBoy]

Contracting takes a certain mentality, not a certain skill...

I left permie and went contracting 12 months ago...resigned first, too some time off (4 months of Garden Leave which was nice), set up my Ltd and then went looking...

WIthin 3 days I received a call from someone who had seen my CV on Monster and 2 days later I was working for them on a 2 month gig overseas.

Ended up extending and spent 9 months there...fairly lucrative and a lot of fun...even got to come back to the Uk for holidays...

Got back to the UK and took a couple of months off...then started looking again...this time not so good.

Went to first interview...got the gig but two days later was informed that they had canned the project as there had been a mistake with the budget.

Went to second interview...got the gig to start two weeks later...a phone call three days before I was due to start and I read that the company was being investigated by the fraud office...shortly after got a call from the agent to say contract had been cancelled.

Went to third interview...got a second interview a week later. Went to second interview and was told I would be starting the following week. Next day instead of a contract I got told the project had not yet been fully authorised and needed to wait another week. Finally got the gig and start next week.

But you hopefully will see that sometimes things don't run too smooth...and you may be able to survive three months without working...but its not the this, its the pressure 2 months in, of 'tulip' I only have a month left, am I good enough, is there a market out there, should I start looking at permie jobs again...should I accept a lower rate just this once, if I do that will I ever be able to raise my rate...blah blah

Being a contractor is a great life if you have the right mentality, if not I can imagine it would be hell...and more importantly, your significant other must also have the right mentality...

Spend six months saving money, preparing your CV, setting up a website, making early contact with agencies, networking and stealing as much useful material from your current employer as possible...then you are in prime position to make a decision...

Go into contracting for the life, not the money...sometimes the money will run dry, but the life will never change.

[Jawz .]

You no go with them expensive boys. I do you for many less monies. We go with you for 10$ for very long day.

Ha ah I love that pic man!

[Back In Business]

Gosh, look at all the great advice I'm getting

True, once you get past the initial cynicism and sarcasm you'll find that most folk on this forum are quite helpful

[cojak]

Dear God, not another one...

Just remember this advice when the next downturn comes.

Remember to hold onto the trunk when Gordo starts shaking the tree again.


(Cojak in Cantona mode )

[MartinF]

Gosh, look at all the great advice I'm getting

Thanks!!!

Makes a lot a sense. I really was leaning toward the "quit now" approach. But it sounds like I should just be patient. The longer I wait, the more holidays I accrue, the shorter the notice period etc.

My summary was just that; a summary. I come from a Sperry Mainframe, UNIX, C, COBOL background. Briefly through FoxPro and VB. Bit of Java. Lots of Delphi. Years of MSSQL. I don't normally list the auxilliary skills you pick up (like awk or JavaScript).

Now I concentrate on the whole VS2005 thang including Reporting Services and IIS. Studying Ajax right now. I'm quite at home with Active Directory and some of the other Microsoft mid-level stuff (but not BizTalk).

I've developed lots of systems that are based around Clients and their Transactions; from Unit Trusts to Job Costing to Food Retail. Various MS-Office integration and a couple of years of low(ish) level stuff.

But if I have to write another Payroll, I'll shoot myself (after I've finished it of course).

M.

[oraclesmith]

I'll put my CV with an agency (looking at Modis, Elan or Computer Futures)

I take it all us contractors meet up for drinks every friday?

M.

The agency thing doesn't really work like that. You must always, always remember that they're not your agent, they work for the clients who pay them to place ads and filter out suitable candidates. Most here would avoid the SThree agencies such as Computer Futures, Huxley, Progessive etc who, it is alleged, will take a huge margin if you let them. Do your homework.

The best way, in my opinion, to get some contract contacts is to do two things (a) put your CV on the jobboards that are aggregated on the CUK contract search , paying particular attention to making your CV searchable on Jobsite and (b) every day make a point of searching for suitable contracts on the CUK contract search by keywords or location if you like.

The employment businesses (agencies if you like) use job-boards to search for suitable candidates so with some good buzzwords sorted you should get some contact in no time. I usually leave open the possibility of permanent work, because sometimes there are really tempting jobs on offer.

Make your CV as focussed as possible on the type of role you want - ie. programmer not manager.

[Francko]

My point was merely that, at 40 years old, the only way in the permie world to make big bucks is to go the Management route. Blurgh.

Or contract.

And yes, I want guarantees. It's scary. I've got a family and a subscription to Sky. But I could comfortably survive for 3 months without any income.

I think I'll take the chance. I'll put my CV with an agency (looking at Modis, Elan or Computer Futures) and offer 3 weeks availability (as I'm owed a weeks holiday anyway).

I take it all us contractors meet up for drinks every friday?

M.

Despite what they might have said here, I must say that I honestly admire you. You have courage and determination and that should be enough. Unfortunately, there is a number of aggressive insecure short-endowed invididuals here who enjoy attacking everybody who come for an advice in the vague hope to appear better than what they are and to forget their miserable existence. I hope you got this picture well in advance.

What I would say though if I had to read you 20 year CV that your skillsets doesn't appear particularly extensive though quite deep. How about increasing the number of technologies in your hand? i.e. Biztalk just to name one...

[MartinF]

Just to clarify the Management thing:

I've been in Management (well, over teams of programmers, which sort of counts); I didn't like it. I get 'nudged' in that direction frequently. I resist. I don't want to write memos, do meetings and play golf.

My point was merely that, at 40 years old, the only way in the permie world to make big bucks is to go the Management route. Blurgh.

Or contract.

And yes, I want guarantees. It's scary. I've got a family and a subscription to Sky. But I could comfortably survive for 3 months without any income.

I think I'll take the chance. I'll put my CV with an agency (looking at Modis, Elan or Computer Futures) and offer 3 weeks availability (as I'm owed a weeks holiday anyway).

I take it all us contractors meet up for drinks every friday?

M.

[oraclesmith]

Have you been watching how many and what at rate the sorts of contracts you could do have been coming up on the CUK contract search? This is crucial to knowing how much work you might get as a contractor and also how much unpaid benchtime you'll be getting. You don't get contracts coming up in all skillsets and perhaps there won't be much in your area, unless you're willing to stay over during the week. I certainly found this was an issue and I didn't really research the market before I fell into contracting instead of going for another permie position.

You have the luxury of being permanent at the moment so you can take your time. You could set up your limited company etc, accountant, website etc in advance. Use the time wisely and don't jump in. You could even apply for a few contracts where they don't mind too much about the notice period. Find out what deliberately shortening the notice period really means - eg. monetary penalties, no reference, bad feeling etc.

Remember that a permie salary includes paid bank holidays, annual leave and sickness, all of which you will need to fund as a contractor. Your employers pay employers side NI as well as possibly contributing to a pension scheme and pay any business expenses all of which you may need to fund from your contract fees. There will also be overheads such as insurance, accounting fees etc which will need funding.

[kingshuk]

I am about to start contracting for the first time after 9 years as permie.

Found the current job market very good (for us) and didn't have to resign before finding this contract. The client was willing to wait for 4 weeks.

Probably the following worked in my favour this time -

1. Luck - happened to be working on exactly the same area where the client has a requirement

2. Money - quoted rate was less than the market rate - based on the stats I saw and what my contractor friends tell me.

So yes, we newbies are a deflationary force in the contracting market - just like the Indians

I would suggest you not to resign before finding a contract. With a little patience, luck, slightly lower rate and your deep experience I think you will find a contract. Good luck!

[BobShawadiwadi]

Do they include Indians in your statistics? They can do it for £40 a day.

You no go with them expensive boys. I do you for many less monies. We go with you for 10$ for very long day.