Reply to: Covid vaccines: Boris Johnson pledges surplus to poorer countries

[SueEllen]

Yeah, im not trying to be authoritative, cos I'm not - it's all just personal stuff. Using the term clinician probably wasnt right either, its pharma innit?

Nah they are retired healthcare workers who got back on the respective register to volunteer to be vaccinators.


Oh and a pharmacist is probably more experienced in giving vaccinations than them as a good number give flu vaccinations, there as some healthcare workers end up in management or other more hands off roles.

[Scoobos]

Not all the volunteers deploying it are "non-clinical" I know a couple....

Yeah, im not trying to be authoritative, cos I'm not - it's all just personal stuff. Using the term clinician probably wasnt right either, its pharma innit?

[GhostofTarbera]

Covid vaccines: Boris Johnson pledges surplus to poorer countries at G7 - BBC News

Very good idea. I think we should take pity on poorer countries. Like the EU. Though it always worries me that one can end up supporting a dictatorship, one should take pity upon the citizens.

Scotland then ?



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[SueEllen]

Thats it though "assuming you mix as you use" , they don't they mix as soon as opened, on a box by box basis. the cold chain lasts until delivery. When its delivered its mixed by "clinicians" and deployed by volunteers, who aren't clinicians, for the rest of the day.

And to be fair, thats how it should work - we are doing a brilliant job, don't get me wrong - but the clinicians prepare the vaccine, and then "non clinical" volunteers administer it. Thats why it works the way it does. If you had volunteers doing the prep and mix, that's not right.

Not all the volunteers deploying it are "non-clinical" I know a couple....

[Scoobos]

well in this case it agrees.

From your link





so 5 days unmixed in a refrigerator and 6 hours mixed at low room temperature, one would assume you pop it into the fridge at 2 degrees just in case. So its as per my post. Assuming you mix as you use not many will be wasted and you will have a few hours to use up the last.

Thats it though "assuming you mix as you use" , they don't they mix as soon as opened, on a box by box basis. the cold chain lasts until delivery. When its delivered its mixed by "clinicians" and deployed by volunteers, who aren't clinicians, for the rest of the day.

And to be fair, thats how it should work - we are doing a brilliant job, don't get me wrong - but the clinicians prepare the vaccine, and then "non clinical" volunteers administer it. Thats why it works the way it does. If you had volunteers doing the prep and mix, that's not right.

[vetran]

Trust me, when it comes to Pfizer, GOV.UK is not a credible source.

How about this, pretty close to what I typed above:

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Information | CDC

The astrazenaca one, I'm not commenting on, I don't think they are being wasted, as badly. You'd be surprised (I was) to know how much Pfizer vaccine is in the first dose - the majority in my area are Pfizer. I don't think there's anything in the public domain that is saying how much are Pfizer and Oxford, you would assume Oxford since its "home grown" .

well in this case it agrees.

From your link

Before mixing, the vaccine may be stored in the refrigerator between 2⁰C and 8⁰C (36⁰F and 46⁰F) for up to 120 hours (5 days). After 120 hours (5 days), remove any remaining vials from the refrigerator and discard following manufacturer and jurisdiction guidance on proper disposal.

1. Keep mixed vaccine between 2⁰C and 25⁰C (36⁰F and 77⁰F) and administer within 6 hours. Discard any unused vaccine after 6 hours. Do not return to freezer storage.

so 5 days unmixed in a refrigerator and 6 hours mixed at low room temperature, one would assume you pop it into the fridge at 2 degrees just in case. So its as per my post. Assuming you mix as you use not many will be wasted and you will have a few hours to use up the last.

[Scoobos]

The five days on pfizer was here

Information for Healthcare Professionals on Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - GOV.UK.




AZ

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immuni...strazeneca.pdf



both seem credible sources.

Trust me, when it comes to Pfizer, GOV.UK is not a credible source.

How about this, pretty close to what I typed above:

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine Information | CDC

The astrazenaca one, I'm not commenting on, I don't think they are being wasted, as badly. You'd be surprised (I was) to know how much Pfizer vaccine is in the first dose - the majority in my area are Pfizer. I don't think there's anything in the public domain that is saying how much are Pfizer and Oxford, you would assume Oxford since its "home grown" .

[TestMangler]

Yet more ironing!

My friend is the special needs consultant for Moldova.

You mean your keyworker.....

[vetran]

Well according to ladymuck it is happening in some places which is great, as it was the number one complaint I heard . It wasn't from no shows and people asking were turned away, it was VERY strict on the priority groups. The only way you could get one is if you were part of a previous wave. But , as I said, no reason to disbelieve ladymuck, so thankfully common sense is finally being used.

But I want to correct you on the pfizer vaccine as it's not how it works , but bear with me as this is 2nd hand information.

The vaccine comes in boxes with vials - once that BOX is opened , the box can be stored for 5 days - but in the UK once a box is opened, its gone within the day (this is due to it coming in several parts, a dilutant and an ancilliary kit). Most centres mix it immediately, once its mixed, its got to be used that day. I'm not sure to be honest, why the mix is made immediately on opening a box, if its storage concerns, or just "breaking the seal" - but I know of many places that have several vials left over and thrown away each day, in 1 case it was over a 100 doses thrown. I believe this is the reason for slower rollout in Scotland and Wales , because care homes etc were geographically much further? (I dont know! just guessing, but it was to do with a lack of range within the 6 hours)

The instructions i've seen say "Keep mixed vaccine between 2⁰C and 25⁰C and administer within 6 hours. Discard any unused vaccine after 6 hours. Do not return to freezer storage."

The most recent batches have also come with Red bold, for where it used to say 21 days and the series sentence "2-dose series separated by a maximum of 41 days - A series started with COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer) should be completed with this product." - This is definitely aimed at us

Finally, its 6 doses a vial for Pfizer - but we said 5 - again for information unknown to me at least - but its probably for sensible reasons.

Again, this is all second hand information.

The five days on pfizer was here

Information for Healthcare Professionals on Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine - GOV.UK.

Store in a freezer at -80 °C to -60 °C.Store in the thermal container at -90 ºC to -60 ºC.
Store in the original package in order to protect from light.
Once removed from the freezer, the undiluted vaccine can be stored for up to 5 days at 2 °C to 8 °C, and up to 2 hours at temperatures up to 25 °C, prior to use. During storage, minimise exposure to room light, and avoid exposure to direct sunlight and ultraviolet light. Thawed vials can be handled in room light conditions.
After dilution, store the vaccine at 2 °C to 25 °C and use as soon as practically possible and within 6 hours. The vaccine does not contain a preservative. Discard any unused vaccine.
Once diluted, the vials should be marked with the dilution time and discarded within 6 hours of dilution.

AZ

https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immuni...strazeneca.pdf

Place immediately in the fridge at a temperature of +2 °C to +8°C in original boxes to protect vialsfrom light.The shelf life of the unopened vials is less than 6 months and they should remain in their originalboxes in the fridge until the time of usageFrom the time of vial opening (first needle puncture) to administration, the product may be kept andused at temperatures up to 30°C for a single period of up to 6 hours. After this time period, theproduct must be discarded.

both seem credible sources.

[Scoobos]

Is that from no shows? there are 6 doses in pfizer vaccine and it can be stored in a normal fridge for five days.

So max 5 doses.

10 in the Astrazeneca vial which can be stored in a fridge for 6 weeks and 6 hours after piercing so max 9.

not seeing how you are coming up with 10?

if you plan correctly there should be nearly none. The last vial opened will probably be only an hour old.

No reason that those can't be returned to a central point near the Police, fire, bus depot, train station, traffic wardens, army camp or care homes and used over night. You could inject the volunteers at the vaccine centre.

Well according to ladymuck it is happening in some places which is great, as it was the number one complaint I heard . It wasn't from no shows and people asking were turned away, it was VERY strict on the priority groups. The only way you could get one is if you were part of a previous wave. But , as I said, no reason to disbelieve ladymuck, so thankfully common sense is finally being used.

But I want to correct you on the pfizer vaccine as it's not how it works , but bear with me as this is 2nd hand information.

The vaccine comes in boxes with vials - once that BOX is opened , the box can be stored for 5 days - but in the UK once a box is opened, its gone within the day (this is due to it coming in several parts, a dilutant and an ancilliary kit). Most centres mix it immediately, once its mixed, its got to be used that day. I'm not sure to be honest, why the mix is made immediately on opening a box, if its storage concerns, or just "breaking the seal" - but I know of many places that have several vials left over and thrown away each day, in 1 case it was over a 100 doses thrown. I believe this is the reason for slower rollout in Scotland and Wales , because care homes etc were geographically much further? (I dont know! just guessing, but it was to do with a lack of range within the 6 hours)

The instructions i've seen say "Keep mixed vaccine between 2⁰C and 25⁰C and administer within 6 hours. Discard any unused vaccine after 6 hours. Do not return to freezer storage."

The most recent batches have also come with Red bold, for where it used to say 21 days and the series sentence "2-dose series separated by a maximum of 41 days - A series started with COVID-19 vaccine (Pfizer) should be completed with this product." - This is definitely aimed at us

Finally, its 6 doses a vial for Pfizer - but we said 5 - again for information unknown to me at least - but its probably for sensible reasons.

Again, this is all second hand information.

[vetran]

Boris Johnson has pledged surplus covid vaccines to poorer countries.


So that's Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland sorted out.

[vetran]

That's actually really good news.

I have to write something negative, when talking about these cretins though - so here goes.

Shame we can't offer the surplus vaccines that EVERY vaccine centre has at the end of a working day, that get destroyed - to the general public.

The absolute minimum number of thrown away vaccines at each centre is 10 . That's 10 people every day who could go and get a voluntary.

Jus' saying.

Is that from no shows? there are 6 doses in pfizer vaccine and it can be stored in a normal fridge for five days.

So max 5 doses.

10 in the Astrazeneca vial which can be stored in a fridge for 6 weeks and 6 hours after piercing so max 9.

not seeing how you are coming up with 10?

if you plan correctly there should be nearly none. The last vial opened will probably be only an hour old.

No reason that those can't be returned to a central point near the Police, fire, bus depot, train station, traffic wardens, army camp or care homes and used over night. You could inject the volunteers at the vaccine centre.

[vetran]

Yet more ironing!

My friend is the special needs consultant for Moldova.

does he want a job on CUK?

[ladymuck]

That's actually really good news.

I have to write something negative, when talking about these cretins though - so here goes.

Shame we can't offer the surplus vaccines that EVERY vaccine centre has at the end of a working day, that get destroyed - to the general public.

The absolute minimum number of thrown away vaccines at each centre is 10 . That's 10 people every day who could go and get a voluntary.

Jus' saying.

It does. Lots of people I know got a call at short notice (from 15 minutes to a few hours) to see if they were available to attend for a jab. I think many places are holding back up lists of people to call to use up vaccine

I don't know if EVERY vaccine centre is doing that but I know several instances where it is.

[Scoobos]

That's actually really good news.

I have to write something negative, when talking about these cretins though - so here goes.

Shame we can't offer the surplus vaccines that EVERY vaccine centre has at the end of a working day, that get destroyed - to the general public.

The absolute minimum number of thrown away vaccines at each centre is 10 . That's 10 people every day who could go and get a voluntary.

Jus' saying.