Reply to: EDSGFS TREEDS DWP Project

[expat]

You sound like a whinging permie.

None of what you have complained about should be an issue for a contractor. It goes with the territory.

If the client decides they dont want you any more thats their call. They dont want you in over the Christmas period, their call - They arn't the only big co. to do this btw, my client has the same policy.

If they built that in to the contract, take it or leave it; if they do it by ending your contract in December and starting it again in January, just remember that the "starting again" is only an offer, they can't make you take the new contract. You can always walk away.

As for changing "bench time" and travel time, I see only 3 poss:
1. they're doing it within the terms of the contract. Well, you signed it.
2. they're terminating one contract and offering you another with new terms. Decide whether to accept it or not.
3. they're changing the terms of the contract without having a right to. Treat this as case 2 (and tell them so) and act accordingly.

[skattrd]

Sorry to be slightly OT but can someone tell me who is recruiting for this one - I know last year it was CP/Ajilon Synergize and someone else ...
Is it just Synergize now or are ComputerPeople still involved as I think am under contract to EDS GFS through CP

I've just finished with Fujitsu on the HMRC (stride) project and we were paid a full days pay for standby (sitting at home) ... which was nice.

[Ardesco]

They sound like pemie consultants to me....

[wendigo100]

"Bench time" - how often does that happen? That would be sweet indeed. When I worked for any consultancy (not for government projects), any "bench time" and the contract would have been terminated immediately.

bob, I appear to be stalking you this morning.

I've never been paid for bench time as contractor either, but perhaps these guys are actually permies who think they are contractors. I've worked alongside SEMA and Siemens consultants who got paid bench time.

[bobhope]

"Bench time" - how often does that happen? That would be sweet indeed. When I worked for any consultancy (not for government projects), any "bench time" and the contract would have been terminated immediately.

[MrsGoof]

I like the bit where you are moaning that you are now being paid less for sitting at home on your back side doing nothing.

FFS. If you want to do that then sign on.

[cojak]

It really does sound to me like a reality realignment of this contract. If you had travelling hours included in your rates (and it sounds like you're hourly paid), then this is very unusual and probably unsustainable from the client's side. If this was included in your T&C then you probably can do something about it. Speak to lawyers (Lawspeed).

Basically you need to accept that the client has woken up and smelt the coffee.

Those contractors that are indignant in this gig are probably new to the life. The old hands will simply realise that the gravy train has stopped...

[Cliphead]

As I've done on the odd occasion, if you don't like the environment, walk.

They won't care and if you're good enough getting another contract shouldn't be a problem. Breach of contract looms because you walked? Tough, sue me, it's never happened yet.

You piss off the pimp? Tough, there are tuliploads of them around who need you more than you need them. Go direct anyway.

Working on a government contract. What the fuck did you expect? Buffoon has it right - "It is official policy of my company that we do not do any government work under any circumstances."

[Cowboy Bob]

But we don't enter into a written contract with a builder? If we did and we didn't specify he couldn't work Mondays then we couldn't tell him not to work Mondays after we have both signed?

I am thinking as a business and a contract is exactly what it says it is surely?

I have never had a contract that specified the hours or days to work - it usually specifies what the client considers a "professional working day" but there is no agreement that either I work those hours, or that the client has enough work to fill those hours.

In fact, if the contract does specify things like that then you're likely to fall foul of IR35 as this will directly affect two of the pointers - Mutuality of Obligation (MOO) and Direction and Control (D&C).

So either you get those clauses put in your contract and pay up the extra tax for IR35, or you make sure they're not in there, pay less tax, and take the extra risk. You can't have both.

[VectraMan]

Surely the point here is not whether they can change their terms, but rather can they change them mid-contract?

If they really are breaching the terms of the contract, why are you whinging on here? Go sue them.

[Rumbl3r]

We're supposed to be in business in our own right. Act like a business, not an employee.

But we don't enter into a written contract with a builder? If we did and we didn't specify he couldn't work Mondays then we couldn't tell him not to work Mondays after we have both signed?

I am thinking as a business and a contract is exactly what it says it is surely?

[Cowboy Bob]

Are we saying being a contractor doesn't have any basic rights?

That's about the long and short of it, yes. If you employ a builder to do some work on your house, does he have any employment rights? Can you tell him he can't work Mondays? Can you tell him half way though the job that you're getting someone else to finish the it? Of course you can. Contractors are like builders. Or at least they should be and that's why we get the higher rates. We're supposed to be in business in our own right. Act like a business, not an employee.

[Rumbl3r]

Surely the point here is not whether they can change their terms, but rather can they change them mid-contract? If so, what is the point of a rolling contract where they set the dates?

Isn't the point of a contract exactly that, and agreement between 2 parties which is set in concrete until it is terminated?

I work on this contract and to be honest I can see why they have changed certain things, as their are some who have taken the pi$$ out of the rules and spoilt it for the rest of us.

Their latest change is still not clarified but if it is implemented as it has been stated then many people will lose out on many travelling hours, when what they were attempting to do was to stop the people who claimed they drove 3 hours back home every evening and 3 hours back in the morning, when in fact they just paid £20 for a B&B for the night and went nowhere!

The bottom line is that they will now have a reluctance from the contractors to travel more than 1.5 hours from home with the demoralising effect. I agree that if we don't like it we just leave, and from their perspective they can say that any idiot will take our place, but trust me I have worked with some of these idiots and the project will just suffer losing them a level of reputation.

I agree that the overall deal we're offered is better than most, but as I stated at the start if that's the deal then they should stick with it till they renew peoples contracts and then change the terms. Otherwise why bother with a contract at all? If we were permies we could sue for breach of contract and win! Are we saying being a contractor doesn't have any basic rights?

[cojak]

You can forget it matey - this ain't a trade union.

I walked away happy when they told me I couldn't go in from 18th Dec to 8th Jan - I could have found training work but decided to go on holiday.

If you don't like it find another contract.

It sounds to me as if the client is finally waking up and managing contractor resources properly (for the business)*.

If you want to stand up and be counted, fine but don't expect any other contractor to join you.

* The only bit where you have a solid gripe is the non-payment of invoices, but there are things you can do regarding that, non of which you've suggested.
Try Thomas Higgins to collect any outstanding money, then walk.

[Buffoon]

The phrase ‘sup with the devil’ comes to mind. If you have anything to do with government and those collaborator companies then expect to be shafted.

It is official policy of my company that we do not do any government work under any circumstances.