Reply to: IR35 Unions not concerned?

[BrilloPad]

But since Bojo and The Saj clearly prefer to listen to HMT and HMRC, then we are all rather buggered.

Don't Bojo and Saj have to do what their bosses tell them?

[malvolio]

Once again, this point has noting whatsoever to do with your original premise. This is a pattern of behaviour that you display across these boards.

Please stop jumping in with unnecessary and generally ill-informed opinion.

I beg to differ. The OP was about the unions not reacting to the threat to the rights of workers moved from employment to inside-IR35 status so losing all their usual rights and protections. Someone suggested that IPSE weren't doing anything either, and the usual suspect weighed I with the "IPSE are useless" tirades. I merely pointed out that they are not only about IR35 any more as you well know. To which you responded with some facts of which I was fully aware but which are irrelevant to the OP.

Yes, IPSE appear to be impotent at the moment, despite presenting, with other groups, a reasoned and fully researched case as to why this move is so stupid, not only economically but in its impact on workers rights in general. But since Bojo and The Saj clearly prefer to listen to HMT and HMRC, then we are all rather buggered.

Nuff said.

[wattaj]

But this is general? I thought that was the whole point....

Ah... I rarely check the sub-board.

[BrilloPad]

Please stop jumping in with unnecessary and generally ill-informed opinion.

But this is general? I thought that was the whole point....

[wattaj]

Of course I know the numbers are falling. But if you are a member, hanging on for another year would seem to be a sensible option right now, just in case this whole off-payroll bollocks goes tits up - which is quite likely IMHO - or agencies and clients start listening about how to work with outside-IR35 people properly, something that is starting to happen.

Once again, this point has noting whatsoever to do with your original premise. This is a pattern of behaviour that you display across these boards.

Please stop jumping in with unnecessary and generally ill-informed opinion.

[malvolio]

Oh dear, you are sooo out of the loop these days... IPSE membership is dropping, and it has been dropping for over three years. Ask around; people in the know know that I'd been watching that VERY closely over the years. No amount of "hey, let's go fish in that bigger pool over there" will change that without a major restructuring of the IPSE membership offering. A restructuring that IPSE would seem to be incapable to doing.

Now, as to whether anyone will be going to FTT as a result of these most recent changes to the market remains to be seen. But I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on that, or IPSE's ability to capitalise on that scenario.

Of course I know the numbers are falling. But if you are a member, hanging on for another year would seem to be a sensible option right now, just in case this whole off-payroll bollocks goes tits up - which is quite likely IMHO - or agencies and clients start listening about how to work with outside-IR35 people properly, something that is starting to happen.

[wattaj]

I thought it was fairly obvious. They've diversified into a market of 5m potential members as opposed to 300k or so, and widened their services. The core business of tax protection remains in place, and will be useful when all those people who are outside but are now inside go the FTT in protest.

Perhaps you should lift your eyes above the parapet on occasion.

Oh dear, you are sooo out of the loop these days... IPSE membership is dropping, and it has been dropping for over three years. Ask around; people in the know know that I'd been watching that VERY closely over the years. No amount of "hey, let's go fish in that bigger pool over there" will change that without a major restructuring of the IPSE membership offering. A restructuring that IPSE would seem to be incapable to doing.

Now, as to whether anyone will be going to FTT as a result of these most recent changes to the market remains to be seen. But I wouldn't be pinning my hopes on that, or IPSE's ability to capitalise on that scenario.

[malvolio]

How so? Do enlighten oh great grey beard.

I thought it was fairly obvious. They've diversified into a market of 5m potential members as opposed to 300k or so, and widened their services. The core business of tax protection remains in place, and will be useful when all those people who are outside but are now inside go the FTT in protest.

Perhaps you should lift your eyes above the parapet on occasion.

[wattaj]

Yep, you're wrong.

How so? Do enlighten oh great grey beard.

[SimonMac]

Yep, you're wrong.

They've diversified for sure, not sure it will keep the members dues rolling in though

[MasterBait]

IPSE are nothing like a union, Labour at least listens to the unions

IPSE act like union bullies, at least their members on this forum do. Glad those useless feckers will cease to exist soon

[malvolio]

IPSE seem too comfortable, they have too much to lose if IR35 was scrapped. I could be wrong, perhaps they have diversified and don't need the threat of IR35 to keep the membership dues coming in.

Yep, you're wrong.

[SimonMac]

There is IPSE, they are the most useless bunch though

IPSE are nothing like a union, Labour at least listens to the unions

[SimonMac]

Quite right. Their job is to protect their own. The protectors of the working classes are the Labour Party. Unfortunately the working classes voted for the Loony Right, so they're on their own now. And no sympathy from me.

Remind me which party introduced IR35 again?

[wattaj]

IPSE seem too comfortable, they have too much to lose if IR35 was scrapped. I could be wrong, perhaps they have diversified and don't need the threat of IR35 to keep the membership dues coming in.

IPSE are pretty much ****ed come April 2020. I'd expect them to limp on for a year or so as the membership renewals roll around, but they're looking at a really solid kick in the balance sheet over the next 24 months.