Reply to: Boeing 737 Max: China's top airlines seek compensation

[Zigenare]

Hmmm 1288

The impact left two passengers dead and two severely injured; the two dead were a mother and son

Doesn't count, tulip engines, built by yanks.

Judges decision is final.

[Benny]

Thanks. You didn't win a prize this time, but please try again.

Originally Posted by Benny
hows about ?

Qantas Flight 32 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
Delta Airlines flight 1288 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
United Airlines Flight 232 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
National Airlines Flight 27 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.

Hmmm 1288

The impact left two passengers dead and two severely injured; the two dead were a mother and son

[Zigenare]

hows about ?

Qantas Flight 32 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
Delta Airlines flight 1288 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
United Airlines Flight 232 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.
National Airlines Flight 27 - Nope, no passengers were shredded by the engine.

Thanks. You didn't win a prize this time, but please try again.

[DoctorStrangelove]

hows about ?


United Airlines Flight 232

Sioux City Approach: "United Two Thirty-Two Heavy, the wind's currently three six zero at one one; three sixty at eleven. You're cleared to land on any runway."[6]

Haynes: "[laughter] Roger. [laughter] You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?

Now that takes cohones, and no mistake.

[Benny]

Nope.

Nice try though.

Stick to w*nking over Miss Doiannne!

hows about ?

Qantas Flight 32
Delta Airlines flight 1288
United Airlines Flight 232
National Airlines Flight 27

[Zigenare]

Wot like Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 ?

Nope.

Nice try though.

Stick to w*nking over Miss Doiannne!

[Benny]

Weren't you the fuqwit warning of blades exiting the engine casing and slicing us up in our seats?

Wot like Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 ?

[Zigenare]

MCAS annoys me cause it was developed for no other reason than flawed structural design. That's it. A massive plaster. If that's how the design team *thinks* this is how best practice is applied for new product development then I'd not touch their shares with a bargepole.

Did quite a bit of work on SEU's for Rolls Royce aerospace engine controllers. Part statistical, i.e. determining an acceptable level of probability an event would occur in conjunction with shielding the electronics in question. The majority of cosmic rays vary in energy, you can actually shield against the majority as well as using redundancy. Although I have come across some situations whereby the redundant parts rely on a single sensor - head wallop slap. Then I rant to the design team and get them to see sense.

Weren't you the fuqwit warning of blades exiting the engine casing and slicing us up in our seats?

[scooterscot]

MCAS annoys me cause it was developed for no other reason than flawed structural design. That's it. A massive plaster. If that's how the design team *thinks* this is how best practice is applied for new product development then I'd not touch their shares with a bargepole.

Did quite a bit of work on SEU's for Rolls Royce aerospace engine controllers. Part statistical, i.e. determining an acceptable level of probability an event would occur in conjunction with shielding the electronics in question. The majority of cosmic rays vary in energy, you can actually shield against the majority as well as using redundancy. Although I have come across some situations whereby the redundant parts rely on a single sensor - head wallop slap. Then I rant to the design team and get them to see sense.

[JohntheBike]

Boeing's VW moment with their troubled MCAS (Manoeuvring Characteristics Augmentation System) system. Or 'May Crash at Any Second', as I like to call it.

Boeing 737 Max: China's top airlines seek compensation


Tell me... would you fly on this aircraft after some software engineers told me the patched the problem? Hell no would be my answer. I don't know why anyone would take the risk.

Some years ago I was working for Hitachi at a time when self tuning TV's began to appear. I was quite interested in the technology, but was surprised to learn when visiting the design team, that those who were programming the processes had not received any program training and were not scheduled to do so.

I guess many will remember the Airbus crash at the Paris airshow, where the pilot couldn't over ride the fly by wire computer control. We now have this 737 Max problem. I've previously posted here the illogical control of the air con. in my wife's Fiesta and my Jaguar. You press a button to switch on climate control, but there is no button to switch it off. You have to reset it by turning the fan speed button. Quite logical isn't it?

I guess we should all be wary of fly by wire, whatever aircraft its on.

[Paddy]

Bit flipping:

Particles from outer space are wreaking low-grade havoc on personal electronics



Looks like Boeing didn't get the memo.



Oh, and Boeing of course.

You couldn't make this tulip up you really couldn't.

Single point failure and bit flipping due to cosmic rays.

The fix is to surround the aircraft with lead shielding.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Bit flipping:

Particles from outer space are wreaking low-grade havoc on personal electronics

For cases where reliability is absolutely critical, you can simply design the processors in triplicate and have them vote.

Bhuva pointed out: "The probability that SEUs will occur in two of the circuits at the same time is vanishingly small.

So if two circuits produce the same result it should be correct."

This is the approach that NASA used to maximize the reliability of spacecraft computer systems.

Looks like Boeing didn't get the memo.

The good news, Bhuva said, is that the aviation, medical equipment, IT, transportation, communications, financial and power industries are all aware of the problem and are taking steps to address it.

"It is only the consumer electronics sector that has been lagging behind in addressing this problem."

Oh, and Boeing of course.

You couldn't make this tulip up you really couldn't.

Single point failure and bit flipping due to cosmic rays.

[scooterscot]

"737 MAX’s non-redundant computer system is subject to possible interference by “cosmic rays striking the circuitry” at high altitudes."

This is referred to as Single Event Upsets. Most aircraft are affected in some way, the important part is detecting an un-commanded event, like MCAS. Un-commanded events like this are very difficult to detect because technical nothing has failed.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Just found this little gem:

https://www.eetimes.com/author.asp?s...doc_id=1334999

It's a bitch when that bit flips.

And two computers?

Shirley you need 3 like the Shuttle had if you want to know which one is fecked.

Since then, the Federal Aviation Agency (FAA), which had ceded its inspection duties to Boeing employees, has discovered that besides the fatal flaw in MCAS, the 737 MAX’s non-redundant computer system is subject to possible interference by “cosmic rays striking the circuitry” at high altitudes.

This revelation, detailed in a thorough summary by Dominic Gates in the Seattle Times ("Newly stringent FAA tests spur a software redesign..."), surprised both Boeing and the FAA.

It was discovered only after the FAA was forced into a renewed regimen of close regulation by those horrific Lion Air and Ethiopian Airline crashes.

The software “glitch” discovered by FAA pilots running simulations was correctable manually, in the cockpit, within three seconds.

However, within three seconds, one of three simulations resulted in the airplane going down.

A 33-percent failure rate — which translates into the deaths of as many as 200 passengers — is appropriately deemed “catastrophic” by the FAA.

As a result, Boeing is not only working to double up its MCAS sensors, but to install on every 737 MAX two computers working simultaneously.

This will ensure that a potentially deadly bit-flip in one computer can be discerned and corrected by the other — in less than three seconds.

Ooooops.

[Platypus]

Hmmmm....inneresting....

Good detecting!