Reply to: I've quite literally ran out of pi$$

[vetran]

Dunno why I bother really.

neither do I

If you read the bit I quoted & linked to they looked at how many students arrived in a year and how many left in year. They clearly pointed out they weren't the same students or from the same cohort .

lets try again

The IPS suggests that 135,000 non-EU students entered the UK for study in 2014. The number of people who had previously arrived as students and who are estimated to have emigrated from the UK in 2014 was 44,000.

so 135,000 entered and 44,000 left in absolute terms. that leaves 91,000 more people in the UK due to student visas. They may go home later but that year the population grew by 91,000 more people than were in the UK on Jan 1st i.e. we have net positive immigration.
.
When more students go home in a year than arrive then the net immigration will be negative.

Go back to chewing your crayons.

[northernladyuk]

Agreeing with scooterscot is like one of those dreams when you're walking down a crowded street and suddenly realise you aren't wearing any clothes, but that said ..

I think the Northern Ireland Agreement actually contains a clause to the effect that the Westminster Government must show no favouritism towards any Northern Ireland party, and it is hard to see how an agreement with the DUP is in keeping with that.

Yes, Brexit really is the gift that keeps on giving.

[sasguru]

Unfortunately reality and ONS figures seem to make your assertion look like a crock of tulipe as usual.

This explains it quite well of course as we use the IPS to try to estimate migration has a lot of holes but it seems a lot stay behind.

Hard Evidence: how many foreign students stay in the UK?



They may be fake or real but if they stay here which a significant number apparently do then they are part of the migration figures. If they go home they are subtracted from the net figure.

Not sure why you find that hard to understand!

Feck me, you're "confused" as usual. Hope your teachers got a knighthood.

From your own link:

"Students who arrive or leave the UK for more than 12 months are counted as migrants in official net migration statistics in the same way as those who come and go for other reasons. Unsurprisingly, there has been significant opposition to students being included in the migration target from universities, further education institutions and public figures."

Which is stupid since most degree courses are at least 3 years and you won't know if they are really migrants till they finish.

Hence:

" Unsurprisingly, there has been significant opposition to students being included in the migration target from universities, further education institutions and public figures"

Not sure why you find that hard to understand

Dunno why I bother really.

[MrMarkyMark]

Agreeing with scooterscot is like one of those dreams when you're walking down a crowded street and suddenly realise you aren't wearing any clothes, but that said ..

I think the Northern Ireland Agreement actually contains a clause to the effect that the Westminster Government must show no favouritism towards any Northern Ireland party, and it is hard to see how an agreement with the DUP is in keeping with that.

I hope you haven't toned that dream down just for us

[OwlHoot]

John Major makes an excellent point regarding the peace process remains fragile. If a Westminster party attempts to shore up a minority government when they are to be impartial to northern Ireland parties... one could imagine the peace process unravelling. If there's any hint of this a 2nd GE must be held. A position whereby a Westminster party sacrifices trouble in NI reigniting for a power grab in their own party - how much damage will they be allowed to cause?

Agreeing with scooterscot is like one of those dreams when you're walking down a crowded street and suddenly realise you aren't wearing any clothes, but that said ..

I think the Northern Ireland Agreement actually contains a clause to the effect that the Westminster Government must show no favouritism towards any Northern Ireland party, and it is hard to see how an agreement with the DUP is in keeping with that.

[vetran]

I know you're a bit thick and don't understand English properly, so it's no surprise that you've got the wrong end of the stick.

What I said is that counting students as immigrants is misleading and wrong, since the vast majority go back.

"Fake" students is another issue entirely.

Unfortunately reality and ONS figures seem to make your assertion look like a crock of tulipe as usual.

This explains it quite well of course as we use the IPS to try to estimate migration has a lot of holes but it seems a lot stay behind.

Hard Evidence: how many foreign students stay in the UK?

The IPS suggests that 135,000 non-EU students entered the UK for study in 2014. The number of people who had previously arrived as students and who are estimated to have emigrated from the UK in 2014 was 44,000.

Taken together, this suggests that in 2014, net migration of students according to the IPS was 91,000 – that is, 91,000 more new students arrived than former students left. This snapshot must be interpreted carefully, because the people arriving and leaving are part of different cohorts. We do not yet know how many of the 2014 student cohort will leave, as many are not expected to do so for a few years.

They may be fake or real but if they stay here which a significant number apparently do then they are part of the migration figures. If they go home they are subtracted from the net figure.

Not sure why you find that hard to understand!

[sasguru]

You bemoaned people and politicians for limiting student visas when all they did was do exactly what you suggested needed doing.

I know you're a bit thick and don't understand English properly, so it's no surprise that you've got the wrong end of the stick.

What I said is that counting students as immigrants is misleading and wrong, since the vast majority go back.

"Fake" students is another issue entirely.

[vetran]

Prettty sure you said she was intelligent in one post but anyway the point is that limiting the number of students would be like Tesco limiting the number of customers going in its stores because 10% of its goods get nicked. Also as many educational establishments have said you can come here on a tourist visa and overstay the type of visa is not the problem.

At first I thought she was, then it became obvious she is seriously out of her depth.

However if Tesco limit & watch the customers based on intelligence they can limit their shoplifting exposure. Closing bogus colleges and refusing high risk students visas makes a lot of sense.

Like every idiot you assume 2 wrongs make a right or negate each other. The solution to one specific problem is not universal otherwise we would have complete control over immigration. Fix the specific problem not claim it is pointless because there is another one.

If you note the UK have also limited Visas to high risk nations and ICTs who abuse the situation.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/new-...nited-kingdom/

New UK visa curbs to hit Indians, non-EU nations from April 6 | india-news | Hindustan Times

[motoukenin]

missing the sarcasm?

May is a fekwitt as I have mentioned a few times.

Prettty sure you said she was intelligent in one post but anyway the point is that limiting the number of students would be like Tesco limiting the number of customers going in its stores because 10% of its goods get nicked. Also as many educational establishments have said you can come here on a tourist visa and overstay the type of visa is not the problem.

[vetran]

Well you complete cretin, the incompetence of authorities who can't figure out who a genuine student is, is hardly negating my point.

You bemoaned people and politicians for limiting student visas when all they did was do exactly what you suggested needed doing.

[vetran]

Read up to the bit you thought the Guardian was right wing and then stopped, there again should have known as you are one of the very few people that see May as being intelligent.

missing the sarcasm?

May is a fekwitt as I have mentioned a few times.

[sasguru]

Indeed poor AssGuru, had no idea there was widespread & systematic abuse of the student visa system as documented by these right wing sources.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/...00-immigration




https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...-tougher-rules

Curtailment of 100,000 student visas sparks row - BBC News

Well you complete cretin, the incompetence of authorities who can't figure out who a genuine student is, is hardly negating my point.

Exhibit one - Student X from abroad has a place to study Engineering at Imperial College. Give him a visa and extend the red carpet. Hopefully he'll stay on afterwards.

Exhibit two - Student Y from abroad has a place to study marketing at Bollux School of marketing. Decline the visa.

Crack down on bogus colleges, only allow students in accredited insititutions.

And those students in accredited insitituitions are not immigrants until they apply for that status.

[scooterscot]

John Major makes an excellent point regarding the peace process remains fragile. If a Westminster party attempts to shore up a minority government when they are to be impartial to northern Ireland parties... one could imagine the peace process unravelling. If there's any hint of this a 2nd GE must be held. A position whereby a Westminster party sacrifices trouble in NI reigniting for a power grab in their own party - how much damage will they be allowed to cause?

Remember all this begun because of David Cameron. Never forget.

[scooterscot]

You don't follow Scottish politics then?

The only party in the UK at the minute with a majority government is the SNP.

[scooterscot]

But you have to admit, it is funny (or is it depressing that the UK is making itself a laughing stock on the world stage?)

It is a bit of both. How an advisory referendum could be taken so far is beyond me. A 2nd referendum made legal would have been logical like the French elections so everyone could pause for breath.

On radio four last night they were taking about the delay to queen's speech and how the drying of ink on goats skin parchment was a factor.