Reply to: What would abolishing tution fees REALLY cost?

[scooterscot]

And Germany educates foreigners for more or less free, and in English too. People here would think that was insane, but maybe they think by encouraging students to go there many will settle and Germany benefits from an influx of bright young graduates. In Britain the attitude is "It's discustin. Why should I have to pay for somebody else!".

If I were 18 again I know what I'd do.

A number of American students come over to Germany to avoid fees.

How US students get a university degree for free in Germany

[PurpleGorilla]

What would abolishing tution fees REALLY cost?

Free places to study medicine and engineering - but if you want to study philosophy or media studies you have to pay.

Let's fund stuff that matters, not Micky Mouse homeothapy!

[MeMeMe1966]

Anyway the reason to means test is because the Duke of Westminster will have no problems putting his children through uni but someone in care doesn't have that same back up. And it's more cost effective for us as a society to give that care kid a lift so they can get a decent job then his children.

Is it more cost effective to put the care kid through uni rather than the smartest kid?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing just checking that we've accounted for all the variables.


So presumably you are saying that poor kids who wouldn't qualify within a merit based system and aren't prepared to self-fund through loans would be more incentivised to go to uni & get a job, thus not relying on benefits which is what would otherwise happen.

But wouldn't the state also benefit if all the people entering universities started out at a higher level? Wouldn't competition for the 20% free uni places make for everyone entering uni a bit smarter or better educated? If they started out smarter then possibly might the leaving grades improve as well? So more firsts, more 2:1, less 2:2, etc.? And won't smarter people entering the workforce boost the economy more?

[SueEllen]

We were talking about people who already go to university and what they should do instead.

Do an apprenticeship then get a Masters degree. Result you have experience and a degree.

[d000hg]

We were talking about people who already go to university and what they should do instead.

[SueEllen]

Millions of jobs? And then when you've been a waiter and haven't got a degree, what are you going to do?
As automation gathers pace there will be fewer and fewer jobs to do. The very notion of employment will be challenged to some degree. It's going to be very challenging.

You are aware not everyone is capable of getting a degree?

Even then there are some people who do well without one while others do badly with one.

[VectraMan]

And Germany educates foreigners for more or less free, and in English too. People here would think that was insane, but maybe they think by encouraging students to go there many will settle and Germany benefits from an influx of bright young graduates. In Britain the attitude is "It's discustin. Why should I have to pay for somebody else!".

If I were 18 again I know what I'd do.

[scooterscot]

Crikey, sounds like you're going native! An apprenticeship?

That's it!

It's frustrating, sometimes you just don't remember the word or cannot convey the meaning. But an Ausbildung is not exactly like an apprenticeship, somehow it's different. And there's a respect for people who've worked years gaining their ausbildung whereas in the UK it is almost the reverse. Culture / attitude as much as anything.

[d000hg]

Plenty of jobs in Retail, hotels and restaurants. Teaches some basic stuff like responsibility and interaction with coworkers/management usefull in any other job later in life. Actually making money instead of debt in the process.

Millions of jobs? And then when you've been a waiter and haven't got a degree, what are you going to do?
As automation gathers pace there will be fewer and fewer jobs to do. The very notion of employment will be challenged to some degree. It's going to be very challenging.

[meridian]

A "reality check" in the BBC suggest that the government would have to put aside an extra £11bn a year to pay for tuition fees, although once those who do not pay back their loans is factored in, this falls to £8bn a year.

When tuition fees were brought in, did it save the government £11b a year? If so, where has this money gone?

[OwlHoot]

FTFY.
.. what do you call an ausbildung in English? Ich wergessen.. whereby you learn on job but get a recognised qualification at the end.

Crikey, sounds like you're going native! An apprenticeship?

[sal]

If less people went to uni what would they do instead? We have fewer and fewer menial/manual jobs. The idea that you don't start work until 21 is rather attractive

Plenty of jobs in Retail, hotels and restaurants. Teaches some basic stuff like responsibility and interaction with coworkers/management usefull in any other job later in life. Actually making money instead of debt in the process.

[d000hg]

If less people went to uni what would they do instead? We have fewer and fewer menial/manual jobs. The idea that you don't start work until 21 is rather attractive

[SueEllen]

You guys are missing the point. Who cares about what the Students and the Country needs, it's all about votes.

Abolishing the fees wins votes

Keeping the fees, saves money that can be used elsewhere to win votes

Sensible solutions like funding specific subjects or places or means testing are neither here nor there and don't win votes.

But sensible solutions would win more votes according to polls.

[sal]

You guys are missing the point. Who cares about what the Students and the Country needs, it's all about votes.

Abolishing the fees wins votes

Keeping the fees, saves money that can be used elsewhere to win votes

Sensible solutions like funding specific subjects or places or means testing are neither here nor there and don't win votes.