Reply to: Post-Brexit customs checks a 'catastrophe' for UK shipping: trade body

[OwlHoot]

What flounce???

http://forums.contractoruk.com/gener...xodus-cuk.html

(although I see now that was a parody thread )

[VectraMan]

They are hoping to put in electronic systems that can detect illegal goods but need the French to agree otherwise it wont be effective, and therein lies the problem.

Or the whole EU probably.

Of course whether Kent becomes a lorry park or not is not dependent on the British government's feeble attempts at IT; that's wholly dependent on the French government/EU implementing an effective system. The British government can only effect the queues in Calais for lorries trying to get in.

[motoukenin]

I think the consequences of leaving the EU will be more about proper paperwork and having decent IT systems in place than a much greater percentage of physical stops and searches:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ps-declaration

Not helped by recent PS changes for contractors I daresay. However, surely even HMRC will manage to sort it eventually. (By 2089 I expect)

Actually stopping and searching all lorries from the EU that we don't now is hardly a necessity given that they will no more will be carrying illicit goods etc. than is currently the case. As for the effects on travellers, we already go through quite extensive document and baggage checks when we leave a country, including EU countries. It's essential for preventing terrorism, fake passports etc. it's not just about customs duties. Can't say I've found much difference between EU and a non EU countries. Getting a Visa is usually just a quick online job with a very small fee.

They are hoping to put in electronic systems that can detect illegal goods but need the French to agree otherwise it wont be effective, and therein lies the problem.

[xoggoth]

I think the consequences of leaving the EU will be more about proper paperwork and having decent IT systems in place than a much greater percentage of physical stops and searches:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ps-declaration

Not helped by recent PS changes for contractors I daresay. However, surely even HMRC will manage to sort it eventually. (By 2089 I expect)

Actually stopping and searching all lorries from the EU that we don't now is hardly a necessity given that they will no more will be carrying illicit goods etc. than is currently the case. As for the effects on travellers, we already go through quite extensive document and baggage checks when we leave a country, including EU countries. It's essential for preventing terrorism, fake passports etc. it's not just about customs duties. Can't say I've found much difference between EU and a non EU countries. Getting a Visa is usually just a quick online job with a very small fee.

[VectraMan]

I am suggesting that redeployment of some of the resources spent in towns/cities in the UK to the borders may be more effective. Searching a lorry at one port to find illegal fags could be cheaper than searching several small corner shops in various parts of Britain that end up selling them.

"better checks, with a more focused system that addresses the main problems" and "Better border controls, if done properly" hardly translates to "Fortress Britain". The post you are arguing with exists only in your imagination.

Fine. Probably they have good reasons for the way that it's done now, and it's nothing to do with being in the EU.

[sasguru]

I am suggesting that redeployment of some of the resources spent in towns/cities in the UK to the borders may be more effective. Searching a lorry at one port to find illegal fags could be cheaper than searching several small corner shops in various parts of Britain that end up selling them.

"better checks, with a more focused system that addresses the main problems" and "Better border controls, if done properly" hardly translates to "Fortress Britain". The post you are arguing with exists only in your imagination.

Complete bollocks as usual.
The fact is that is the scenario feared by the trade body means customs officers will be tied up with checking the paperwork for each and every lorry leaving them less time to conduct checks or look for wrongdoing. A bureaucratic nightmare with little gain.

[xoggoth]

So you're advocating Fortress Britain. Where not only is every lorry stopped and searched, it's held up for several days whilst the authenticity of the goods are checked

I am suggesting that redeployment of some of the resources spent in towns/cities in the UK to the borders may be more effective. Searching a lorry at one port to find illegal fags could be cheaper than searching several small corner shops in various parts of Britain that end up selling them.

"better checks, with a more focused system that addresses the main problems" and "Better border controls, if done properly" hardly translates to "Fortress Britain". The post you are arguing with exists only in your imagination.

[VectraMan]

I did also say undeclared in my post. We have a lot of booze and fags smuggled in, mostly from Eastern Europe and the Med, that reduces the amount of tax HMRC gets on the legitimate brands. The cost of dealing with these problems falls on our police and trading standards throughout the country and is not confined to our borders.

I don't claim to be an expert but it seems to me that intercepting these goods at the ports may be easier and cheaper than trying to find them once they have been distributed to umpteen outlets all over the country. Better border controls, if done right, could possibly save us money.

So you're advocating Fortress Britain. Where not only is every lorry stopped and searched, it's held up for several days whilst the authenticity of the goods are checked.

And again, Brexit changes nothing, except for the fact whereas customs officers were focused on trying to stop crime, most of their work is now going to be on dealing with the law abiding.

[diseasex]

Brexit will bring many opportunities to the truly entrepreneurial types.

So far I struggle to see anything. Long range scanners deployed

[diseasex]

Okay so in reality there's not going to be customs checks at the border to any significant degree. This means we can all continue to laugh at the "Get control of our borders!" idiots, which is a plus. However, the alternative to custom checks is far more terrifying. Everything will be done electronically, which means the whole thing will hinge on a Government IT system.

There can be on shengen side.

[motoukenin]

Brexit will bring many opportunities to the truly entrepreneurial types.

Mostly balifs and lawyers

[_V_]

I hear MF is closing down his sledges shop and opening a new one selling speed boats, bitcoins preferred...

Brexit will bring many opportunities to the truly entrepreneurial types.

[AtW]

Apart for job losses and higher prices, the silver linning will be the oportunity for grey imports.

I hear MF is closing down his sledges shop and opening a new one selling speed boats, bitcoins preferred...

[xoggoth]

Customs is about collecting taxes; makes no difference to anything undesirable/illegal

I did also say undeclared in my post. We have a lot of booze and fags smuggled in, mostly from Eastern Europe and the Med, that reduces the amount of tax HMRC gets on the legitimate brands. The cost of dealing with these problems falls on our police and trading standards throughout the country and is not confined to our borders.

I don't claim to be an expert but it seems to me that intercepting these goods at the ports may be easier and cheaper than trying to find them once they have been distributed to umpteen outlets all over the country. Better border controls, if done right, could possibly save us money.

PS Ain't holding my breath about the "if done right" bit.


Around £31.6 billion of tax revenue has been lost because of the illicit market in spirits, beer, wine, cigarettes, rolling tobacco and diesel, according to the analysis of HMRC figures by the Taxpayers’ Alliance.
Sin*taxes on alcohol and tobacco have cost the Treasury £31bn, analysis finds

Trading standards enforce legislation that deals with the sale of counterfeit and other supplies of cheap and illicit tobacco or alcohol.
There are many forms of cheap and illicit products. Of rising concern are foreign branded 'cheap white' cigarettes which are legally manufactured abroad, typically in eastern Europe and the Mediterranean, and sold to traders who transport them to the UK, where they are sold illegally without paying taxes.
https://www.york.gov.uk/info/20046/t...oholcigarettes

Main markets of destination for criminal organizations seem to be high taxed and extremely absorbent markets in the EU (the United Kingdom market seems to be the most attractive) Smuggling in East and Central Europe has grown. It has been assisted by integration processes within the framework of the EU and Schengen area.
http://www.inge-graessle.eu/tl_files...0Smuggling.pdf

The EU's eastern border is the place of choice for cigarette smugglers, who can make easy profits from the price differences with Ukraine, Russia and other Eastern countries. A pack of premium cigarettes costs €5.26 in Belgium, €3.41 in Poland, €1.33 in Ukraine and less than €1.74 in in Russia, and less than €1 in Belarus.
https://www.euractiv.com/section/eur...astern-border/

[VectraMan]

Won't it be up to us how much we ramp up checks on what enters our country?

You mean like we had inside the EU?

Customs is about collecting taxes; makes no difference to anything undesirable/illegal. If anything the huge amount of extra work customs officers are going to have to do post-Brexit makes smuggling people and stuff in easier.