Reply to: Business Rates Rises

[SueEllen]

Regarding beer prices for pubs ... I have a friend who runs a small pub company with about 25 pubs in it.

This is what he told me when I asked about the prices ( for another friend)

£75 ex vat free trade for 72 pints of cask beer
£83 ex vat free trade for 88 pints of Carling/fosters
Eg doom bar average price 3.60 so about £2.30 slightly more on Carling etc

Sounds good until you work out the rent, rates, staff wages, heating. lighting, water etc

[tomtomagain]

Regarding beer prices for pubs ... I have a friend who runs a small pub company with about 25 pubs in it.

This is what he told me when I asked about the prices ( for another friend)

£75 ex vat free trade for 72 pints of cask beer
£83 ex vat free trade for 88 pints of Carling/fosters
Eg doom bar average price 3.60 so about £2.30 slightly more on Carling etc

[SueEllen]

Listening to a guy running a pub based in Barnet on the radio. His business rates are going up from £9,000 to £23,000. He's suppose to get £1700 of trade a week on 900sq ft according to the fair maintainable trade calculation it is based on. He is now closing down his pub and making his 3 employees redundant.

Oh and lots of corner shops are going to close.

[SueEllen]

Had a blinding idea if I ever wanted to open my place as a pub, which all the local farmers and residents have been beseeching me to do since I moved to Devon.

Claim it is a B&B, where the guests all kip on folding beds in the same large room, like a down-market youth hostel if you like, then charge the regulars say a pound for the night so they can then drink as hotel guests (and not of course bother staying the night, unless they end up literally too legless to drive home).

I just realised charities are exempt from business rates. So if your members club was a charity then you would be exempt.

There as your B&B wouldn't be.

[sal]

Rural pubs probably aren't being charged £40k. Hence my caveat about what size/type of pub it is.

I was talking to a pub owner a couple of weeks ago, and their annual council tax in rural Devon is almost £40,000 a year. No wonder so many pubs are closing!

Business rates are ridiculous notion, straight out of medieval times. Raising them all the sudden is like killing the golden goose.

[SueEllen]

Ah but the point is nobody would be dossing there, or that would be the idea anyway.

Charging a token amount for the night is just to ensure they are technically hotel guests, and the place isn't a public house.

You can just make it a members club.

The [name of random place nearby] working mens club.

Then you don't have to put people up.

You can charge £10 per year for membership.

[OwlHoot]

I can see it all ending like this:-

HUH! How did you get that picture of my sitting room?!

[MrMarkyMark]

Ah but the point is nobody would be dossing there, or that would be the idea anyway.

Charging a token amount for the night is just to ensure they are technically hotel guests, and the place isn't a public house.

We are talking down in Devon here, are you sure you have thought this through?

I can see it all ending like this:-

[OwlHoot]

The classic description of an illegal doss house then

Ah but the point is nobody would be dossing there, or that would be the idea anyway.

Charging a token amount for the night is just to ensure they are technically hotel guests, and the place isn't a public house.

[ChimpMaster]

The classic description of an illegal doss house then

But a great way to avoid the Mrs and that inevitable nagging you're going to get coming home half-cut.

[MrMarkyMark]

Had a blinding idea if I ever wanted to open my place as a pub, which all the local farmers and residents have been beseeching me to do since I moved to Devon.

Claim it is a B&B, where the guests all kip on folding beds in the same large room, like a down-market youth hostel if you like, then charge the regulars say a pound for the night so they can then drink as hotel guests (and not of course bother staying the night, unless they end up literally too legless to drive home).

The classic description of an illegal doss house then

[OwlHoot]

Had a blinding idea if I ever wanted to open my place as a pub, which all the local farmers and residents have been beseeching me to do since I moved to Devon.

Claim it is a B&B, where the guests all kip on folding beds in the same large room, like a down-market youth hostel if you like, then charge the regulars say a pound for the night so they can then drink as hotel guests (and not of course bother staying the night, unless they end up literally too legless to drive home).

[SueEllen]

And that's why you see all these old pubs that are no longer profitable going for ridiculously low prices.

My own local which was set in nearly an acre of grounds went for £200k. Of course, the person who bought it still had to pay the swingeing rates on it until he got the change of use permission granted.

And that took 3 years.....

Changing a property from business to domestic use means the government loses money.

Some office blocks near me that have been empty for years are now flats. One of them actually had a newsagent and a nightclub in the structure, which were both open until they got the planning permission. The newsagent owners were really old and clearly wanted to retire.

Anyway it took about 10 years of them being empty before the change of use was granted.

On the other hand if the change of use is for a Housing Association I've noticed within a year they have their planning permission...

[OwlHoot]

Yes but they make that profit margin after paying the 19p currently (if my figures are even close). Rates aren't going up by 19p a pint,

blah, blah, blah ...

FFS, why do you _always_ have to try and defend the completely indefensible?

You're like that knight errant Don Quixote, determined to find some cause to champion, and tilting at windmills.

[Big Blue Plymouth]

I was talking to a pub owner a couple of weeks ago, and their annual council tax in rural Devon is almost £40,000 a year. No wonder so many pubs are closing!

And that's why you see all these old pubs that are no longer profitable going for ridiculously low prices.

My own local which was set in nearly an acre of grounds went for £200k. Of course, the person who bought it still had to pay the swingeing rates on it until he got the change of use permission granted.

And that took 3 years.....