Reply to: The Battle of Orgreave

[DodgyAgent]

Do you have an annual convention, because we could just send South Yorkshire police down to sort you out good and proper.

They are usually guests of honour

[Old Greg]

we exist because the markets want us (after all no other fekker does) If we were not needed we would not exist

Do you have an annual convention, because we could just send South Yorkshire police down to sort you out good and proper.

[DodgyAgent]

Says the recruitment agent to the contractors.

we exist because the markets want us (after all no other fekker does) If we were not needed we would not exist

[Old Greg]

Essentially the miners believed they were entitled to be employed and supported by the rest of the country

Says the recruitment agent to the contractors.

[LondonManc]

it is very hard for people to change. I think nowadays children should be brought up with aspirations that make them more adaptable. This is already happening thanks to social media.

Sounds great unless people are asking you to move to London or Liverpool.

[DodgyAgent]

Who knows? We should at least have had the ability to re-open them if mining breakthroughs were made that allowed its extraction to become far cheaper. Not only that but given consideration to what could have replaced them; rather than simply turfing thousands of grafters out of their jobs and expecting them to relocate to survive, some sort of replacement industry should have been found; plenty of grafters and an ailing car industry sounded like a missed opportunity to me.



My grandfather *was* born into a mining community; his father made the boots for the miners in his valley. What did he do? He trained pilots in WW2, so found out there was more to life than mining, met a lady from Manchester and moved up here to settle.

Each generation faces a different set of problems and we receive a very skewed story pre-internet; as I said, the newspapers told the country what to think and people believed them. Traditionally they had, purportedly, been the bastions of truth before being used as political instruments. I think it's therefore impossible to know what you'd do if someone in central government told you that they were turning your community's source of income off.

I've since visited my late grandfather's village/town and its prosperity now appears to hinge on the success of the one large factory within it. While I was down there, I found out that some villages weren't that lucky and many people were simply playing the lottery from the dole as their only hope of escape, which sounded pretty sad and desperate.

it is very hard for people to change. I think nowadays children should be brought up with aspirations that make them more adaptable. This is already happening thanks to social media.

[vetran]

some of my extended family live in / near colliery towns.

There was a real lack of planning.

No new work so you can understand their desperation.

The fury surrounding it prevented people doing sensible things like preserving pits for the future.

I imagine many would be economic & safe with modern technology.

[LondonManc]

So does that mean we should have preserved the mining industry?

Who knows? We should at least have had the ability to re-open them if mining breakthroughs were made that allowed its extraction to become far cheaper. Not only that but given consideration to what could have replaced them; rather than simply turfing thousands of grafters out of their jobs and expecting them to relocate to survive, some sort of replacement industry should have been found; plenty of grafters and an ailing car industry sounded like a missed opportunity to me.

Another question . If you had been born into a mining community what would you have done?

My grandfather *was* born into a mining community; his father made the boots for the miners in his valley. What did he do? He trained pilots in WW2, so found out there was more to life than mining, met a lady from Manchester and moved up here to settle.

Each generation faces a different set of problems and we receive a very skewed story pre-internet; as I said, the newspapers told the country what to think and people believed them. Traditionally they had, purportedly, been the bastions of truth before being used as political instruments. I think it's therefore impossible to know what you'd do if someone in central government told you that they were turning your community's source of income off.

I've since visited my late grandfather's village/town and its prosperity now appears to hinge on the success of the one large factory within it. While I was down there, I found out that some villages weren't that lucky and many people were simply playing the lottery from the dole as their only hope of escape, which sounded pretty sad and desperate.

[vetran]

Dennis Thatcher’s and his company Burmah Oil was being subsidised by the rest of the population more than what coal mining was. Burmah Oil should have gone bankrupt but Maggie made an exception.

The coal mines were closed down and subsidised coal was imported leaving no competition. Once competition was out the way, prices rocketed.

Meanwhile Dennis Thatcher’s life style was being subsided

yeah

Burmah Oil Sues Bank of England - NYTimes.com

[original PM]

So does that mean we should have preserved the mining industry?
Another question . If you had been born into a mining community what would you have done?

Not really a relevant question today.

Many miners would rarely if ever have left the valley they were born in and so would have had very little knowledge of what else there was.

Nowadays with everybody being so connected online you can no longer have the isolated conditions which would lead to that staid way of life.

But lets be honest - digging rocks out of the ground with your bare hands as a way of life in the 20th century is just wrong.

[Paddy]

They were not as bad as each other. The miners were prepared to go to any lengths to protect their jobs despite the fact that they were being subsidised by the rest of the population. I am not quite sure how else the police were supposed to deal with these people.

Dennis Thatcher’s and his company Burmah Oil was being subsidised by the rest of the population more than what coal mining was. Burmah Oil should have gone bankrupt but Maggie made an exception.

The coal mines were closed down and subsidised coal was imported leaving no competition. Once competition was out the way, prices rocketed.

Meanwhile Dennis Thatcher’s life style was being subsided

[DodgyAgent]

Villages in Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and the valleys of South Wales were built around the pits. That's all there was. That and the ancilliary services - cafes, mining boots, coal transportation services, etc.

So does that mean we should have preserved the mining industry?
Another question . If you had been born into a mining community what would you have done?

[vetran]

Not they could have done much more - it was more what that society expected of them rather than what they wanted.

the governments big failing was to not supply alternative employment at the time. Many may well have left or avoided the pits if there had been a choice.

All this romanticising mining is a little sad though it was dirty, dangerous & doomed.

[original PM]

Is mining all that they and their offspring were ever capable of doing?

Not they could have done much more - it was more what that society expected of them rather than what they wanted.

[LondonManc]

Is mining all that they and their offspring were ever capable of doing?

Villages in Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire and the valleys of South Wales were built around the pits. That's all there was. That and the ancilliary services - cafes, mining boots, coal transportation services, etc.