Reply to: Becoming a manager for a few extra quid a day

[Francko]

Oh dear. I suppose all those 360 performance appraisals, mission statements, etc performed by managers benefit Western civilisation too? Unfortunately disagreeing with you means agreeing with Francko and that can't be right.

Isn't there a middle way where you can both be wrong?

No, there isn't. You are either with me or against me.

[DimPrawn]

Anyone would think you're inventing new Computer Science concepts every day instead of the reality, which is you're a mediocre code monkey who happens to have learnt some computer language or the other, which anyone with intelligence slightly over the average can do.

What is the core business of the company you work for? I bet it's not writing software. So you're just another glorified cleaner, similar to a janitor or the cleaners ( who BTW cannot be outsourced). If the company you work for can make as much money without your skills, what does that make you?

And if we need to save your skills for the benefit of Western Civilisation, please do tell us what they are, won't you?

Deluded twat.

Hey, I like your new sig

[bobhope]

Oh dear. I suppose all those 360 performance appraisals, mission statements, etc performed by managers benefit Western civilisation too? Unfortunately disagreeing with you means agreeing with Francko and that can't be right.

Isn't there a middle way where you can both be wrong?

Anyone would think you're inventing new Computer Science concepts every day instead of the reality, which is you're a mediocre code monkey who happens to have learnt some computer language or the other, which anyone with intelligence slightly over the average can do.

What is the core business of the company you work for? I bet it's not writing software. So you're just another glorified cleaner, similar to a janitor or the cleaners ( who BTW cannot be outsourced). If the company you work for can make as much money without your skills, what does that make you?

And if we need to save your skills for the benefit of Western Civilisation, please do tell us what they are, won't you?

Deluded twat.

[sasguru]

What a great strategic idea! Let's become a nation of managers! It doesn't matter if we lose all the expertise. We can make lots of business deals during our evening drinks and our golf sessions. All without the need of any expertise, as that is only techies stuff, not worth to keep in the house. Let's keep doing that and outsource more and more until some properly managed company in India will be able to buy us out and force us to return to an agricultural economy.*

* Unfortunately, you are not the only idiot to think like this.

Anyone would think you're inventing new Computer Science concepts every day instead of the reality, which is you're a mediocre code monkey who happens to have learnt some computer language or the other, which anyone with intelligence slightly over the average can do.

What is the core business of the company you work for? I bet it's not writing software. So you're just another glorified cleaner, similar to a janitor or the cleaners ( who BTW cannot be outsourced). If the company you work for can make as much money without your skills, what does that make you?

And if we need to save your skills for the benefit of Western Civilisation, please do tell us what they are, won't you?

Deluded twat.

[Francko]

What a pointless thread this is. Just proves the point with techies - usually have all the people skills of a dead slug. This is life we're talking about - to achieve something you have to deal with the non-logical bi-pedal species which is humanity. Or you can hide away in your techie stuff till they outsource it to Johnnie Kumar in Mumbai. Your choice.

Next ....

What a great strategic idea! Let's become a nation of managers! It doesn't matter if we lose all the expertise. We can make lots of business deals during our evening drinks and our golf sessions. All without the need of any expertise, as that is only techies stuff, not worth to keep in the house. Let's keep doing that and outsource more and more until some properly managed company in India will be able to buy us out and force us to return to an agricultural economy.*

* Unfortunately, you are not the only idiot to think like this.

[sasguru]

What a pointless thread this is. Just proves the point with techies - usually have all the people skills of a dead slug. This is life we're talking about - to achieve something you have to deal with the non-logical bi-pedal species which is humanity. Or you can hide away in your techie stuff till they outsource it to Johnnie Kumar in Mumbai. Your choice.

Next ....

[Troll]

In response to the people who haven't written a line of code in X years...

I code for fun. Couldn't imagine life without it.

Who needs to code when there are lots of monkeys out there who actually enjoy it far better to live off & take credit for their efforts

[vetran]

Look at it as a learning opportunity.

If you are a permie it means you can go for all those exciting management training courses. Leadership with emotional intelligence, 360 reviews with pleasure, hiring & firing with confidence, internal examinations of senior staffers etc.

Depends on the offer, if its not much extra work and you get to keep your tech skills its another useful skill.


Remember companies hire Burger restaurant mangers to manage staff, yet won't touch a 'smart tech' rev 1 expert to work on rev 1.1.

[Churchill]

Thats great Monkey, if only you could find someone to pay you to do it...

I shouldn't let lack of pay stop you, just look at AtW...

[lukemg]

Thats great Monkey, if only you could find someone to pay you to do it...

[TheMonkey]

In response to the people who haven't written a line of code in X years...

I code for fun. Couldn't imagine life without it.

[Francko]

Defo some truth in that, however, I found this no more dificult than the 'get on with people' attitude I bring to a contract. Most people I have worked with would estimate that I probably like them as colleagues and I am personable and approachable. Mostly this has been the case but there have been plenty of times I have built up serious dislike of people while smiling and taking the money. One chap I hated invited me to his wedding... Point is, it's just playing the game, everyone has to do it to a certain extent unless you are super guru (trust me not many if any on here are one). We are not talking brown nosing, simply establishing a reputation as a safe pair of hands, not moaning, not going sick, always looking for progress in a project - its easy if you have any personality at all (anyone who had a zx spectrum need not apply)

I wouldn't say is exactly the same as obtaining new contracts. Not to say it's easier or more difficult but I think it just requires different skills. I would say that as a manager you have to focus on building up your power and influence, while as a contractor you have concentrate on your specific area and customer needs. Surely you might have to deal with bastards at any level, that doesn't necessarily apply to management. But I still think you need to have a different approach to succeed in the two fields. And if you are a good contractor (no need to be a genius) you can stay on top with more ease, while being a good manager does not necessarily keep you on top at all.

[lukemg]

Luke,

I agree with the above sentence. However, stepping up from junior to senior manager roles is not an easy transition and you need to have the right attitude and political mentality (i.e. you need to become a total corporate zombie in most cases).

Defo some truth in that, however, I found this no more dificult than the 'get on with people' attitude I bring to a contract. Most people I have worked with would estimate that I probably like them as colleagues and I am personable and approachable. Mostly this has been the case but there have been plenty of times I have built up serious dislike of people while smiling and taking the money. One chap I hated invited me to his wedding... Point is, it's just playing the game, everyone has to do it to a certain extent unless you are super guru (trust me not many if any on here are one). We are not talking brown nosing, simply establishing a reputation as a safe pair of hands, not moaning, not going sick, always looking for progress in a project - its easy if you have any personality at all (anyone who had a zx spectrum need not apply)

[DimPrawn]

Remember The Office where that TA rat-faced bloke gets to become "Team Leader" for no extra pay.

That's you that is.

[sasguru]

Just been offered a manager position. The weird thing is that the only financial improvement is a mere few grand extra at the end of the year. The equivalent of a few quid a day. Do people really accept a manager position just for the power and to exhibit their anti-social and destructive skills? I mean, extra responsibility, extra work, extra nuisances, extra everything for a few extra quid a day? I have obviously declined the offer. What is your experience? Did it change your financial position, either contracting or permanent, to go for a managerial role? I can understand that for many (but without speaking names: only nicknames, SasGuru) is a way to cover their inadequacies and pretend they are useful for the company, but if you are technically excellent and have a portfolio of business and other skills, you are a precious resource, even without having to deal with the dirty office politics. Do you reckon is worth to jump on the other side? Did it add any value to you?

Usually when you are offered a so-called "Manager" role without any extra cash, it's because they've decided to put you where you can't cause any more damage.
If on the other hand they double your salary, then you know you're doing something right.

HTH. Next loser .....