Reply to: UK one of the most unequal countries

[scooterscot]

Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

On a serious note, amongst my fraternity of mid to late thirty somethings there is indeed many who want children but don't or can't. Life gets in the way. Whether it be work, biology (been trying for years), for some a conscious choice from affordability (people back home don't recognise this option), or failed relationships I realise how fortuitous we were. Out of say 10 couples we know well only three have sprogs.

"So Süss" you hear all the time when we're in the parks or walking through the street. To suggest folks here are not parent friendly is bizarre and a little bit crass when I know so many would like to.

[scooterscot]

Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

Are you telling me Germans don't procreate, they assimilate?

Resistance is futile.

[NotAllThere]

I do find these sorts of differences very interesting.

Why the difference? I'll make a broad assumption that human beings are equally capable wherever they are born. There is no innate superiority in any group.

Point of order. We Brits are superior to every people group on the planet. It's just the way it is.

As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).

Perhaps there are fewer chav estates where sprogs are popped out once a year per chavette?

[darmstadt]

I should also like to add canals and narrowboats.

Had a lovely drive back tonight along the A4 through Hungerford and Marlborough, windows down with Steely Dans' Aja blaring out.

Decided to pop into Great Bedwyn to see the huge steam beam engines that abstract the water that fills the flight of 26 locks at Caen Hill. Impressive stuff.

I then went for a pint of Summer Lightening at the Who'd A Thought It in Lockridge & to continue the evening's K&A theme, a spot of gongoozling clutching a pint of cloudy cider in the garden of the Barge Inn, Bradford On Avon before driving back home.

You see, you just can't have an evening like that in Germany. Though I'll give the Jerries one thing; they do camper vans much better than us and I say that as the former owner of a VW Westfalia T4.

Probably because they don't live in 'La-La Land'

[SueEllen]

People leave it too late. They come out of education in their late twenties, start professional life in the early thirties. Before you know it that special someone comes along in the mid-thrities. Too late.

Mid-30s isn't too late to have children - if it was plenty of people I know including myself wouldn't be here.

The fact is Germany is clearly not a parent friendly country. If it was German women would want to have and would have children.

[The Only Way Is Keynsham]

Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

I should also like to add canals and narrowboats.

Had a lovely drive back tonight along the A4 through Hungerford and Marlborough, windows down with Steely Dans' Aja blaring out.

Decided to pop into Great Bedwyn to see the huge steam beam engines that abstract the water that fills the flight of 26 locks at Caen Hill. Impressive stuff.

I then went for a pint of Summer Lightening at the Who'd A Thought It in Lockridge & to continue the evening's K&A theme, a spot of gongoozling clutching a pint of cloudy cider in the garden of the Barge Inn, Bradford On Avon before driving back home.

You see, you just can't have an evening like that in Germany. Though I'll give the Jerries one thing; they do camper vans much better than us and I say that as the former owner of a VW Westfalia T4.

[tomtomagain]

UK debt is ignored nearly all of the time by the media. What is GDP now, 91%? Compared to Germany's 76%? 15% might not sounds like a massive difference

That is very true. the repayment cost is £8 in every £100 that the government spends.

[scooterscot]

As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).

People leave it too late. They come out of education in their late twenties, start professional life in the early thirties. Before you know it that special someone comes along in the mid-thrities. Too late.

Agree with defence. UK spends too much in this area (or gets ripped off through supply-chain, much of the same thing). The UK also spends far too much daily on debt interest payments.

UK debt is ignored nearly all of the time by the media. What is GDP now, 91%? Compared to Germany's 76%? 15% might not sounds like a massive difference but explains much about how so many public services remain free rather than hidden in tax.

[MrMarkyMark]

Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

You've forgotten fold up bikes, trains etc. Martin

[tomtomagain]

In Germany they have:

Free university,
Free national travel for students,
Excellent technical colleges,
As much respect given to those who enter trades,
Apprenticeships that pay €10 an hour, not less than £3,
Workfare that's paid employment,
Non judgmental welfare system,
Excellent social housing,
Rent protection and security of tenure for tenants,
Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment..

WHAT's OUR EXCUSE?!!

I do find these sorts of differences very interesting.

Why the difference? I'll make a broad assumption that human beings are equally capable wherever they are born. There is no innate superiority in any group.


First of all, from looking at your list, there is no such thing as "Free". They don't have "Free" university or travel in Germany ( or anywhere else ) some,somewhere, is paying for the right of your child to go to University or to travel on the train. It's just that the cost is hidden within general taxation.

So it is not that we cannot have free uni or travel. But that we don't prioritise it against other Government spending.

Again I'll make an assumption that the overall tax-take in the UK compared to Germany is roughly the same ( about 30% of GDP ).

So where does the UK deploy it's resources? One thing that really stands out to me is that the UK spends $55B ( 2% of GDP ) per year on defence as apposed to only $40B ( 1.2% of GDP ) by Germany.

We really overspend on our armed forces given the size and easy defensibility of the UK and the few remaining overseas territories. Simply by scaling back our spending to the same amount as Germany we'd have £10B per year "spare" to spend on infrastructure or education. That would soon mount up. £100B extra on infrastructure each decade.

Likewise if Germany increased it's spending it would need to find an extra 40 - 50B per year. Which of course they could do, but would mean either increasing borrowing, raising taxes or reducing benefits. Or, more likely, a mix of all 3.


Secondly regarding uni, free travel, housing and education. I think demographics plays a lot into this. For years Germany has had a declining population. So it is cheaper to provide these resources "for free". You don't need to build so many houses if your population is falling. Plus they have more physical space, which makes it easier and cheaper to build new stuff.

As an aside. It always makes me wonder : If Germany is so great for children, why aren't they having any? ( not sure if you can answer that one ).


From the rest or your list:

"Workfare that's paid employment" - that's been raised in the UK before but rejected. It's essentially getting unemployed people to work for their benefits. Which sounds good to some, but it's exploitative and undermines other people doing a similar job.

"Non judgmental welfare system" - not sure that's a good thing. Surely a welfare system should judge in order to allocate resources to those who need them most? Obviously those judging need to be properly trained and regulated.


"As much respect given to those who enter trades" - I'd agree. More focus on training and providing employment for non-academic people would be a good thing. Better to train and employ people as builders rather than importing builders and paying your own people to be on the dole.

"Little in the way of zero hours, minimum hours style employment" - not sure this is a big deal. zero-hours contracts are only 3% of the UK workforce and there is a benefit to having them. It's very flexible, of course they can be abused by some employers but that's not to say they are entirely awful.

[The Only Way Is Keynsham]

Maybe the parts of the UK that YOU have lived in. I have lived in a variety of places across the UK and there are plenty of nice places. I have also lived in Germany.....and Poland.....and Belgium......and Italy.......and Cyprus......and Holland.....and Sweden.......and Ireland....and Lebanon...and India. And by "live" I don't mean a week or two holiday, I mean living and working for weeks, months, and even years on end.
Most if not all had their pluses and minuses, but overall I still give Blighty the edge.
Then again, maybe I am not an insecure prejudiced glass-half-empty fookwit like some?

Same here and we all knock it from time to time but there are things here that are just unparalleled anywhere else in the world.

The countryside, public footpaths, the aesthetics of everyday objects e.g. postboxes, bus shelters (ok, so the modern ones are cr@p), the RNLI, rural pubs, unarmed police and loads more.

These are all things I've missed whilst living abroad. Even the weather; when you're somewhere where the weather varies between 30 & 50 degrees c, you don't half long for a damp, stormy autumnal day.

[shaunbhoy]

The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

Maybe the parts of the UK that YOU have lived in. I have lived in a variety of places across the UK and there are plenty of nice places. I have also lived in Germany.....and Poland.....and Belgium......and Italy.......and Cyprus......and Holland.....and Sweden.......and Ireland....and Lebanon...and India. And by "live" I don't mean a week or two holiday, I mean living and working for weeks, months, and even years on end.
Most if not all had their pluses and minuses, but overall I still give Blighty the edge.
Then again, maybe I am not an insecure prejudiced glass-half-empty fookwit like some?

[The_Equalizer]

The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

The South-East maybe, other parts definitely not. What is odd, given how awful people purport the UK to be, there's no shortage of people who seem more than happy to turn up.

[scooterscot]

Perhaps posters to this thread can first 'fess up as to whether they live in the UK and intend to remain here. It would appear those most critical don't live here/don't intend to stay here.

The UK is not a place where people live. Come on. It's a place where people live to work.

[The Only Way Is Keynsham]

Glad to see you know your geography. Any ideas what part of Germany those voters were from?

Don't tell me.

The bits not already overrun by 3rd world immigration ?
Those who have seen what's happened elsewhere & don't want it in their manor?