Reply to: Should politicians vote to overturn the referendum result?

[scooterscot]

because the EU workers won't take the work back to their country and work for a dollar a day. Or be paid a headline rate which then drops below minimum wage with employer deductions.

Then why not the UK company pay UK wages in said Eastern european country?

[SueEllen]

Unfortunately for the EU they used the term "shall" instead of "must" in article 50.

[scooterscot]

My hunch ( based on nothing substantial ) is that right now there is an awful lot of diplomatic work going on trying to agree a materially-different settlement for the UK....

It's seems logical. Merkel does not wish for a exit that would damage the EU. But I do think the UK over estimates its contribution to the EU.

Assuming what you said is now happening behind closed doors...

1) Why would one member get special privileges over the remaining 27? Especially when other states have said emphatically that wouldn't happen. I'm all for pragmatism, but that happens when you've got a seat at the table not when you're throwing your toys out the pram.

2) The ballot paper was clear. Do you wish the UK to leave the EU or remain. There was no small print. The whole point was to get away from the anti-democratic. What does that make us now? Corrupt or incompetent?

3) Why does the UK only think of itself? The UK was never that keen to be involved in EU matters. The EU's first and foremost goal, from speaking to others here, is to get rid of the uncertainty.

If the UK dithers throughout this week it's going to have its decisions made for it, which is my greatest fear.

[Old Greg]

The important thing is that our parliament is free to make British law.

[Old Greg]

Farrago interview with the Mirror May 16.

He is a man of principle so he will fight for a conclusive second referendum.

[pjclarke]

I agree with Nigel.

Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second*referendum on Britain in Europe*if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

Farrago interview with the Mirror May 16.

[Old Greg]

It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.

[SueEllen]

Thing is with this petition, it's for the wrong thing. Over 3 million people have signed a petition asking for "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum." You can't implement a "rule" after the referendum even if the whole country signs it.

If people want to petition for a second referendum, it's unfortunate that someone didn't take the time to phrase a properly worded proposal for debate.

Yep.

The Brexiter started it in May and because it wasn't advertised not enough people signed it who supported both sides and from the Vatican.

[mudskipper]

Thing is with this petition, it's for the wrong thing. Over 3 million people have signed a petition asking for "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the remain or leave vote is less than 60% based a turnout less than 75% there should be another referendum." You can't implement a "rule" after the referendum even if the whole country signs it.

If people want to petition for a second referendum, it's unfortunate that someone didn't take the time to phrase a properly worded proposal for debate.

[m0n1k3r]

This is an excellent post. If it were genuinely the outcome for ALL of Europe I'm sure it would easily be supported. I think this is what Cameron wanted from the outset but the EU told him to feck off.

On a personal level I wouldn't support it but I'm less concerned about immigration. As contractors most of our competition is outside the EU. My gripe is having the unelected socialists writing our laws.

AFAIK Labour is not writing any laws ATM.

[m0n1k3r]

Ironic isn't it? You voted to get away from alleged anti-democracy and here you are, MP's currently looking at how to ignore the vote.

That is parliamentary democracy for you.

[m0n1k3r]

Some would argue the elected house of commons taking democratic decisions on an advisory referendum is very much democracy in action.

I would vote it down and take the consequences. How can you vote for something you are bitterly opposed to.

Leaving is also about stripping people of a citizenship, which appears to be against human rights conventions.

[SueEllen]

Time to get a referendum to let UK leave the non-EU as well?
U.K. Does not seem to like anybody.

Go back and tell Elizabeth I not to let sailors discover foreign lands.

[GB9]

Time to get a referendum to let UK leave the non-EU as well?
U.K. Does not seem to like anybody.

You haven't got a clue, have you.

[vetran]

I've never quite understood why we have more than a 1% or so non-EU immigration. The population of the EU is about 500,000,000 people.

If a company in the UK cannot find a worker with the skills in a pool of hundreds of millions of people free to work and live here, that employer should not be in existence.

I would be happy for the status quo in EU free movement on the basis that all non-EU immigration was switched off completely and heavily monitored and dealt with.

because the EU workers won't take the work back to their country and work for a dollar a day. Or be paid a headline rate which then drops below minimum wage with employer deductions.

Follow the money.

If we continue with the freedom of movement and more chronically poor states join the queues of people waiting at a truck stop for day labouring will be a mile long. There will be no bottom end jobs available for locals so we will never cut welfare and so little tax will be paid as we will all be on minimum wage you will have to sell a kidney to pay for your children's education.