Brexit

[darmstadt]

...

[NotAllThere]

Discuss.

Nobody here really has a clue what will be best for the country. We start with our preference - to be in or out - and then find facts that fit our preference. It was ever thus.

[VectraMan]

Unfortunately we don't win the votes that count, such as movement of EU citizens.

When do you imagine there was a vote on movement of EU citizens? Freedom of movement was a fundamental part of the EU that Britain agreed to when it all started back in the early 90s. Britain was against the 6 year immigration caps for the former eastern european countries, and we lost that one, but fortunately were able to opt out.

We don't as a UK entity have the ability to kick out the unelected EU leadership. In the same way as the Scots by themselves don't have the ability to kick out the Tories by themselves.

No we don't. Having to go along with the majority is called democracy. I'm in favour of democracy.

Your arguments are weak, at best. And as usual for a Remainer, you have focussed on negatives as you have nothing positive to say.

Your post was entirely negative, and part of it plainly untrue as the link I posted shows. But as the one who wants to change course shouldn't you be the one to convince us that change is better?

But positives: economy, trade, opportunities for British people to live and work abroad. Those are pretty significant.

Tell me how we will look under the EU in 10 years time.

I don't need to. We've been living it for 20+ years. We'll look more or less the same in 10 years time just like we look more or less the same now as 10 years ago.

[GB9]

Only 60%? I thought it was meant to be 75%? I bet you can't name any that affect you though. All the important laws that we live by come from London.





https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/



We do directly elect EU politicians, and just like in the UK other key positions are appointed by and answerable to the PM. As a nation we can't kick out a sitting UK government either; only MPs and The Queen can do that.

There you are. I've picked apart your reasons in 10 seconds so I assume you'll now be voting remain?

I don't want to have to compete with the rest of Europe for work in this country.

Unfortunately we don't win the votes that count, such as movement of EU citizens.

We don't as a UK entity have the ability to kick out the unelected EU leadership. In the same way as the Scots by themselves don't have the ability to kick out the Tories by themselves.

Your arguments are weak, at best. And as usual for a Remainer, you have focussed on negatives as you have nothing positive to say.

Tell me how we will look under the EU in 10 years time.

[VectraMan]

I don't want to be governed by broadly socialist policies and approx. 60% of UK laws are currently set by the EU.

Only 60%? I thought it was meant to be 75%? I bet you can't name any that affect you though. All the important laws that we live by come from London.

We can't set policies because what we want is broadly different to most of the other countries.

Official EU voting records* show that the British government has voted ‘No’ to laws passed at EU level on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ 2,466 times since 1999, according to UK in a Changing Europe Fellows Sara Hagemann and Simon Hix.

In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts...-uk-influence/

We do not directly elect EU politicians and cannot as a nation kick out the ones in situ.

We do directly elect EU politicians, and just like in the UK other key positions are appointed by and answerable to the PM. As a nation we can't kick out a sitting UK government either; only MPs and The Queen can do that.

There you are. I've picked apart your reasons in 10 seconds so I assume you'll now be voting remain?

[GB9]

I don't want to be governed by broadly socialist policies and approx. 60% of UK laws are currently set by the EU.

We can't set policies because what we want is broadly different to most of the other countries.

We do not directly elect EU politicians and cannot as a nation kick out the ones in situ.

Immigration is a lesser point as we need to sort out non EU as well as EU.

Economics is a lesser point as originally we signed up to trade, not to being governed.

That's about it.

I probably feel the same way about the EU as the Scots devolutionists do about the UK. They don't want to be ruled by a government they can't kick out by themselves. The only difference is that no one called them 'little Scotlanders' but hailed them as champions of independence.

Next.

[Old Greg]

Discuss.