Reply to: After a Brexit your todger will fall off

[Flashman]

Retreating from a 40 year association with our closest neighbours and allies is outward looking?

But I was quoting Original PM who said:

Not sure how that one works? Norway and Switzerland don't seem terribly isolated and inward looking.



When we leave the EU I guess we'll just have to make do with being members of these handful of international organisations.

[DodgyAgent]

Retreating from a 40 year association with our closest neighbours and allies is outward looking?

But I was quoting Original PM who said:

So the whole concept of being inward or outward looking is defined by whether you want to be part of the EU or not is it?
The EU therefore is the sole purveyor of all things good about the UKs connection with the outside world is it?

If the EU does holds such a monopolistic position then we are better out of it.

As for the 40 year bit are you one of those people that defines how good something is by the amount of time you have spent doing it or being part of it?

[d000hg]

That's the problem right there. British politics is beyond saving now. It matters not which of the big parties we vote in they're both the same.

They're not the same at all, they're just equally bad.

Why does Brexit mean that Britain would become inward looking?

One of our rare agreements. We rely on trade and would still be part of Commonwealth, NATO, etc.
I doubt it would mean we get embroiled less in world affairs and world conflicts since we can still remain on very close terms with the EU (like we do the US).
I'm not even sure it would lead to less foreign aid and helping refugees, etc although this seems the most likely way our global involvement might drop, and would not be a good thing in my view though others might see it as a plus.

[VectraMan]

Why does Brexit mean that Britain would become inward looking?

Retreating from a 40 year association with our closest neighbours and allies is outward looking?

But I was quoting Original PM who said:

I believe the UK should stand alone for the next 20 to 30 years

[DodgyAgent]

Poor?

Britain's always been outward looking, the days of empire prove that, as do our alliances with our neighbours (and wars against our neighbours) throughout history. To retreat and want nothing to do with other nations couldn't be less British.

Why does Brexit mean that Britain would become inward looking?

[original PM]

Yeah let's stay as the 8 th vassal state of the benevolent germanic hegemony.

We have always looked outwards but on our terms not someone else's

[VectraMan]

The world has changed and I believe the UK should stand alone for the next 20 to 30 years and refind our identify and be proud of what it is to be British.

Poor?

Britain's always been outward looking, the days of empire prove that, as do our alliances with our neighbours (and wars against our neighbours) throughout history. To retreat and want nothing to do with other nations couldn't be less British.

[diseasex]

Fact, Fiction and Brexit: Truth-Squadding the Arguments - Bloomberg

[Mordac]

I believe the UK should stand alone for the next 20 to 30 years and refind our identify and be proud of what it is to be British.

Did you mean "redefine" or "define"? Either way, your statement is moronic and irrelevant. I personally am not bothered in the slightest who lives here (as long as it's legally, and they are happy to abide by the laws of the land), but I am bothered about laws enacted by our elected representatives being superseded by people who were never elected (or if they were, they must have been quickly de-elected, otherwise they wouldn't now be in Brussels on a fat salary and monstrous expense account).

[DodgyAgent]

Actually it was written about a week ago but still...According to the Daily Mail, Hitler is a nice guy, oops, no that was some time ago although it seems that their attitude hasn't changed much although the amount of cleavage has...

Please could you expand on what it is to be British?

We have our own CUK forum er

[SpontaneousOrder]

This is nothing economic about the decision. It is a sovereignty question.

Yup. It's a self-respect question.

[original PM]

Actually it was written about a week ago but still...According to the Daily Mail, Hitler is a nice guy, oops, no that was some time ago although it seems that their attitude hasn't changed much although the amount of cleavage has...

Please could you expand on what it is to be British?

No I cannot.

See the problem?

[darmstadt]

Yeah but that quote is what 15/20 years old?

The world has changed and I believe the UK should stand alone for the next 20 to 30 years and refind our identify and be proud of what it is to be British.

But again you coming on here telling us to stay in is a bit like himmler going onto ww2forums.com to tell us Hitler is a nice guy and we should accept our German overlords.

Actually it was written about a week ago but still...According to the Daily Mail, Hitler is a nice guy, oops, no that was some time ago although it seems that their attitude hasn't changed much although the amount of cleavage has...

Please could you expand on what it is to be British?

[original PM]

Yep, to quote someone else, (but can't remember whom otherwise I would attribute it)

Yeah but that quote is what 15/20 years old?

The world has changed and I believe the UK should stand alone for the next 20 to 30 years and refind our identify and be proud of what it is to be British.

But again you coming on here telling us to stay in is a bit like himmler going onto ww2forums.com to tell us Hitler is a nice guy and we should accept our German overlords.

[darmstadt]

Yup the Tories hate Europe dontcha know. Not her finest moment

Yep, to quote someone else, (but can't remember whom otherwise I would attribute it)

The strange thing is that last time there was a referendum on membership of the European community, by far the most vocal opponents of EU membership were left-wingers like Tony Benn, while the right-wing fringe of the Tory party were the most vocal champions of the European project. This right-wing pro-European stance was exemplified by Margaret Thatcher's pro-European jumper. This was at a time when Thatcher represented the extreme-right fringe of the Tory party, while most Tories were still of the "one nation Conservative" ilk; content with the prosperous post-war consensus that there should be a mix between state socialism and regulated capitalism. Meanwhile the left-wing of the Labour party provided by far the strongest opposition the the European project.

Nowadays the polarity of the EU debate has been completely switched. The figureheads of the anti-EU movement are people like Nigel Farage (who gets the votes of millions of working class people despite describing himself as "keeping the flame of Thatcherism alive"!) and Michael Gove (the arch-Thatcherite who oversaw the privatisation of thousands of English schools into the hands of unaccountable private pseudo-charities), while the more left-wing elements of the British political spectrum (Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party, the Green Party, the SNP and Plaid Cymru) are taking a more pro-European stance.

It's interesting to consider how this complete reversal of British political polarity has come about.

Back in the 1970s the right-wing fringe saw the European project as an excellent opportunity to push their extremist right-wing economic dogma onto the whole of Western Europe, and in many ways they were successful. Take the EU competition rules that prevent member states from renationalising public infrastructure (no matter how abysmally it is run by the private sector), the anti-democratic European Central Bank, the free movement of labour within Europe or the brutal socially and economically destructive austerity ideology forced on Greece. In many ways the EU has been an absolute triumph for right-wing economic fanaticism.

The problem for militant right-wing fanatics is that the EU is a collaborative project, so for every bit of fanatically right-wing economic dogma they've managed to force onto the entire European community, there's always some pesky left-wing and liberal rules too, like the Working Time Directive, environmental regulations, animal welfare laws, curbs on bankers' bonuses or assertions of the human rights of EU citizens.

The extreme-right fringe of the Tory party. including UKIP have given up on the European project not because they haven't managed to force right-wing economic dogma onto the rest of Europe (because they undeniably have), but because the structure of the EU means that they're constrained from pushing the even more militant right-wing agenda they want in the UK.