The police don't apologise to anyone they investigate so why should they apologise to Proctor?
If they apologised then the person commits the crime they were first accused of but this time there are 3 witnesses so there is sufficient evidence for the CPS to take it to trial, they would look silly.
Also the defence would be able to use the apology in court to help establish reasonable doubt.
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Previously on "I see that complete knob Tom Watson has jumped aboard the latest bandwagon"
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Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostYou seem to have swallowed what you read and I think you are the one misunderstanding in your usual puffed up and abusive manner (seriously; have you been tested for aspergers and other personality disorders?)
I'll try not to express my irritation which is caused by people bandying about unsubstantiated allegations and rumours contrary to the principle of innocent until PROVED guilty. It's not a hard concept, really.
Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostInnocence is not based on absence of evidence rather there being proof beyond reasonable doubt.
In the absence of such evidence a person is considered innocent.
Unsubstantiated allegations by people who may or may not be mentally ill does not constitute such evidence.
Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostTo get to the stage of a charge being made the CPS make a determination of likely conviction based on the evidence compliled, the criteria is pretty high. If they decide not to proceed that does not equate to no evidence. The CPS is also known to make some odd decisions e.g not charging/putting Janner on trial, it is not beyond political influence.
Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostIf it doesnt go to trial the accused can say the police had no evidence at all and play the victim.
Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostIs Proctor a paedophile? most likely given his past and circumstancial evidence, has he killed children? who knows, I bet the police have a good idea and they are not apologising that's an indication of what they think of him.
To conclude on that basis that Proctor probably killed kids is illogical, to say the least.
Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostPS Making this about political ideology is a little sad it's cross party scum. Janner Labour, Cyril Smith Liberal, Proctor Conservative. The others that must not be named are also cross party.
Tom Watson's bungling would have capsized any case against Leon Brittan, says Matthew Scott - TelegraphLast edited by sasguru; 9 April 2016, 10:40.
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostIt's always astounds me how people will believe any old crock of tulipe they read in the sensationalist press.
And yes the legal system is based on the fact that absence of evidence of guilt=innocence.
Another concept many of the hard of understanding fail to get.
Innocence is not based on absence of evidence rather there being proof beyond reasonable doubt. To get to the stage of a charge being made the CPS make a determination of likely conviction based on the evidence compliled, the criteria is pretty high. If they decide not to proceed that does not equate to no evidence. The CPS is also known to make some odd decisions e.g not charging/putting Janner on trial, it is not beyond political influence. If it doesnt go to trial the accused can say the police had no evidence at all and play the victim.
Is Proctor a paedophile? most likely given his past and circumstancial evidence, has he killed children? who knows, I bet the police have a good idea and they are not apologising that's an indication of what they think of him.
PS Making this about political ideology is a little sad it's cross party scum. Janner Labour, Cyril Smith Liberal, Proctor Conservative. The others that must not be named are also cross party.Last edited by ZARDOZ; 9 April 2016, 00:50.
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Originally posted by OwlHoot View PostI imagine a lot of teenage rent boys, then and now, are mixed up in drugs and crime.
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Originally posted by sasguru View Post
But of course, now that CUK has been infested with Corbynistas, ne-er-do-wells, socialists, the unemployed, people with mental issues - in general anyone but successful contractors - I suppose the point won't be understood.Originally posted by NickFitz View PostAttacking somebody's credibility by citing the Daily Mail? OK…
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostThere's plenty of other evidence about his political involvement in this. Google it if you're interested.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if you (and he) believed in some genuine satanic conspiracy just because all Tories must be evil. Such is the level of childish discourse, even among supposedly intelligent people, nowadays.
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Originally posted by NickFitz View PostAttacking somebody's credibility by citing the Daily Mail? OK…
Although I wouldn't be surprised if you (and he) believed in some genuine satanic conspiracy just because all Tories must be evil. Such is the level of childish discourse, even among supposedly intelligent people, nowadays.Last edited by sasguru; 8 April 2016, 13:27.
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Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostAbsence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Did he regualrly attend Elm Guest house parties- Yes
Were children trafficed through Elm Guest house- Yes
Did children go missing or turn up dead where families (one a magistrate) are convinced this ring was involved? - Yes
No evidence he murdered children. Much of the evidence around these cases has been destroyed/overlooked/buried...see Janner and there are still people in parliament/positions of power who have links to it all.
Case of nothing to see here it is not.
And yes the legal system is based on the fact that absence of evidence of guilt=innocence.
Another concept many of the hard of understanding fail to get.Last edited by sasguru; 8 April 2016, 13:22.
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Plus. This.
This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics. Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas. The race was close and Johnson was getting worried. Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumor campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his own barnyard sows.
“Christ, we can’t get a way calling him a pig****er,” the campaign manager protested.* “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”
“I know,” Johnson replied.* “But let’s make the sonofabitch deny it.”
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostWe're talking about a puny amount, 30K, before he became PM. And no one claims he broke the law.
If he was actively doing it after he became PM that would be a different matter.
Its obviously too good a stick for the Labourites to resist.
The image they want to create is somebody profiting from tens of thousands salted away in an 'offshore trust', even if it was in reality no such thing and there were no tax benefits, the nuances between an offshore trust and 'an open-ended investment company which was incorporated in Panama and is resident in Ireland' will be lost on 99% of the populace.
It feeds into the 'privileged, out of touch, posh boy' narrative, one rule for them, another for us, favouring the wealthy at the expense of the vulnerable. ( © George Osbourne. )
And it seems to be working.
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Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostDid children go missing or turn up dead where families (one a magistrate) are convinced this ring was involved? - Yes..
So if any "turn up dead" it may well be nothing more than an accidental overdose or a falling out with drug dealers or other villains.
Likewise, I'm sure some "go missing" all the time, having prudently hoofed it from some irate gangster or aggrieved punters they may have ripped off.
Just because kids turn up dead or go missing, it doesn't mean there is some nefarious satanic conspiracy behind it all.
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostAs for the witness being credible:
'Grave doubts' over claims of key witnesses in VIP sex abuse inquiry | Daily Mail Online
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostLike I said, not a nice man.
But did he murder children in a sex orgy?
Almost certainly not.
Did he regualrly attend Elm Guest house parties- Yes
Were children trafficed through Elm Guest house- Yes
Did children go missing or turn up dead where families (one a magistrate) are convinced this ring was involved? - Yes
No evidence he murdered children. Much of the evidence around these cases has been destroyed/overlooked/buried...see Janner and there are still people in parliament/positions of power who have links to it all.
Case of nothing to see here it is not.
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Originally posted by ZARDOZ View PostA man of such great character too
'The Tory MP, rent boys and a sex dungeon in west Hull' – Memories of Harvey Proctor | Hull Daily Mail
But did he murder children in a sex orgy?
Almost certainly not.
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Originally posted by sasguru View PostYou've heard of innocent until PROVED guilty?
There were probably a couple of paedos but saying Ted Heath (FFS!) and Proctor had parties where they murdered children was obviously a pile of complete bollux.
Proctor is a nasty human being but that doesn't mean he's a paedo.
As for the witness being credible:
'Grave doubts' over claims of key witnesses in VIP sex abuse inquiry | Daily Mail Online
'The Tory MP, rent boys and a sex dungeon in west Hull' – Memories of Harvey Proctor | Hull Daily Mail
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