Reply to: Ipse - on the budget

[Zero Liability]

I'm pretty sure ZL is talking about the gov't, not IPSE.

Indeed. Thus the scrounging for pennies by hitting unpopular/unknown groups for extra cash doesn't sit particularly well with me, nevermind eliciting sympathy.

[NibblyPig]

I think the main gripe is not the specifics of how much % we're losing or whatever, it's just the ambiguity. If they want to raise taxes or whatever then just do it, don't start all this crap about SDC, in/outside IR35 and what defines a business etc. that is so vague and lacks any concrete definitions that a) no-one can truly state if they're inside or outside IR35 because it's all touchy feely who has the best legal representation crap, and b) since no-one has a clue some of the people are in and some are out, some are pretending and some have just chosen to ignore it entirely so the amount of tax they're getting is completely random based on if people have decided they need to pay it or want to roll the dice etc.

It's like everyone is running around like headless chickens, some are hiding under their hutches, others are strutting around all confident they're ok, and some have their heads buried in the chicken feed hoping that no-one bothers them. You can't have a consistent legislatible workforce under these conditions

I want to be able to make a decision on whether contracting is viable or predict how I might manage my company going forward, not be speculating over the 500 variables and how they may or may not be interpreted, it is very unprofessional to legislate in a manner that is not textbook list-of-rules straightforward.

If you commit a crime then there is concrete legislation that they can book you under; there's a lot of it, but it exists and it's not for the most part touchy feely. Can you imagine if it said "A person is guilty of an offense if they are sort of acting shifty and meet 3 out of 5 criteria for possibly doing something wrong"?

"You're parked illegally! Here's a ticket. Oh you have a disabled badge? That's all well and good but I don't see you walking with a limp or anything, so your actual disabled practices don't seem to match up with having a badge, so we're gonna ignore that, got any other proof you're not parked illegally?"

[jamesbrown]

Citation needed, as they say..

I'm pretty sure ZL is talking about the gov't, not IPSE.

[v8gaz]

They still find plenty of tulip to spend on, themselves, so my sympathy admittedly runs somewhere close to zero.

Citation needed, as they say..

[Zero Liability]

They still find plenty of tulip to spend on, themselves, so my sympathy admittedly runs somewhere close to zero.

[PermMCCon]

This is my view. IPSE are invited to working parties and to participate in consultations, so they've got more chance of being able to make the case for contractors, and in doing so have the opportunity to highlight consequences that haven't been considered, or point out the impact of various policy proposals on the independent workforce. Whether HMG/HMRC take that on board or choose to ignore it is likely to be beyond their control, although their views are more likely to be taken on board if they're seen as helpful rather than obstructive.

I agree with Mud re IPSE. Remember we are not the multi Billion pound car industry who spend tens of millions on lobbying. Hence IPSE voice is advice which the government may or may not choose to listen to.

When you are a government which had to shoulder nearly £1trn of debt from previous mess and needs massive additional tax revenues, it will be difficult not to target us - no matter what IPSE or anyone else tries to advise them...

Saying that, its still a pain in the #ss.

[mudskipper]

My membership is mainly for the benefits e.g. insurance.

I honesty don't expect any organisation to lobby effectively against the government.

However organisations can and sometimes do show a government policy has unintended consequences that make it ineffective. Though it helps if you can get the media on your side.....

This is my view. IPSE are invited to working parties and to participate in consultations, so they've got more chance of being able to make the case for contractors, and in doing so have the opportunity to highlight consequences that haven't been considered, or point out the impact of various policy proposals on the independent workforce. Whether HMG/HMRC take that on board or choose to ignore it is likely to be beyond their control, although their views are more likely to be taken on board if they're seen as helpful rather than obstructive.

FWIW, whilst I'm not overjoyed at paying more tax, I think it was inevitable. If that was it, then I wouldn't be too unhappy, but it seems to be a starter for 10. What I see as much more of a threat is the expenses consultation, the IR35 review and the fact that this divvy tax, once in place, can be increased at will.

[SueEllen]

Will not be renewing my IPSE membership this year. Their weakness and ineffectiveness in representing Contractors is now apparent.

Waste of time.

My membership is mainly for the benefits e.g. insurance.

I honesty don't expect any organisation to lobby effectively against the government.

However organisations can and sometimes do show a government policy has unintended consequences that make it ineffective. Though it helps if you can get the media on your side.....

[AtW]

Budget 2015 live - IoD reaction

IoD - no mention of either dividends or expenses.

No mention of dividends????

FFS!!!

[AtW]

Couldn't see any mention on FSB website when I looked earlier. Will have another look when I get home.

That FSB ???

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Wrong, but hey...

The real problem is HMRC defying or selectively reinterpreting what HMT is asking them to do, and then royally f***ing up the implementation by being deliberately useless at drafting effective legislation. It's all very well saying that "real businesses" are out of scope, but if you don't then clearly define a "real business", or even give some kind of hint as to what one is, then what is the point?

On the wider issue, HMG has to find around £18bn of savings a year for four years. So we are going to be paying more; where does it say we are exempt from tax increases? Everybody's tax just went up. We're still among the highest paid workers and we still have a significant tax advantage over any permie.

That's a very broad generalisation. IT is not the only freelancing/contracting community out there. The new tax has just made the idea of locum pharmacy completely pointless and in real take home pay terms (let alone the added benefits) made perm pharmacy the better option.

The gap has been heavily narrowed between perm and freelance on our side.

Having said all that I wonder if it is a coincidence that I just got contacted about 2 roles paying 10% more than anything I have seen.

[malvolio]

Unfortunately many people associated with IPSE think they mean something to the Government.

Sorry to say but very very innefective.

Wrong, but hey...

The real problem is HMRC defying or selectively reinterpreting what HMT is asking them to do, and then royally f***ing up the implementation by being deliberately useless at drafting effective legislation. It's all very well saying that "real businesses" are out of scope, but if you don't then clearly define a "real business", or even give some kind of hint as to what one is, then what is the point?

On the wider issue, HMG has to find around £18bn of savings a year for four years. So we are going to be paying more; where does it say we are exempt from tax increases? Everybody's tax just went up. We're still among the highest paid workers and we still have a significant tax advantage over any permie.

[MercladUK]

Unfortunately many people associated with IPSE think they mean something to the Government.

Sorry to say but very very innefective.

[ZARDOZ]

Remember when the artists formally know as the PCG said they had assurances that the Tories would scrap IR35? How wrong can one organisation be?

[Lockhouse]

Will not be renewing my IPSE membership this year. Their weakness and ineffectiveness in representing Contractors is now apparent.

Waste of time.

It's slightly less expensive than the insurance I'd have to pay otherwise I'd join you.