Reply to: Collateral Damage - NHS and Agencies

[Sean Key]

Collateral Damage?

The Agency I had for my last NHS role contacted me last night to complete a 'phone survey'.

They said they had been asked to by NHS.

Had questions like:

- Did you carry out an IR35 assessment of the contract
- Have you paid all relevant PAYE and NI
- If requested would you ask your accountant to send us a copy of your accounts

Now I'm in IPSE+ but I don't know if that covers enquiries routed via Agency / Customer-ish bodies rather than HMRC?

All a bit rum.

Sorry to cut in on your conversation about nurses...

[centurian]

there you go

Hospitals shake up how they recruit staff after Victorino Chua | Daily Mail Online



and I thought I was being too cynical.

Yet, if you are UK based - and you have a caution for getting too pi$$ed on a Saturday night 10 years back - and fail a DBSS check

[vetran]

there you go

Hospitals shake up how they recruit staff after Victorino Chua | Daily Mail Online

The clampdown comes after a nurse who sat an NHS test in Manila in March told the Mail how the woman let candidates take pictures of the answers on their smartphones during a crucial exam to qualify for jobs at King’s. This was not witnessed by a recruitment team from London. The nurse added that applicants only had to provide photocopies of their qualifications when being selected for job interviews.

Omanfil has also helped recruit nurses for London’s Whittington Hospital and Addenbrooke’s Hospital, Cambridgeshire, and played a key role in the recruitment process for London’s University College Hospital – which is looking to recruit dozens of nurses from the Philippines.

Details of the cheating scam were revealed last month in the aftermath of the trial of suspected bogus nurse Chua, 49, originally from the Philippines, who was convicted of murdering two patients and poisoning 19 others at Stepping Hill Hospital in Stockport, Greater Manchester.

and I thought I was being too cynical.

[VectraMan]

It was a prison hospital though

Needless to say I got out.

[Batcher]

When I was in hospital last year the nurses were pretty much doing everything medical. That meant giving you pills, taking blood, putting in/taking out an IV, etc. A nurse even took out my catheter. The doctor was somebody you'd see for maybe 2 minutes every morning, and he was mainly asking the nurse how you were doing.

Things like changing sheets, cleaning up, bringing you food/water etc. was handled by Group 4 people.

It was a prison hospital though

[VectraMan]

When I was in hospital last year the nurses were pretty much doing everything medical. That meant giving you pills, taking blood, putting in/taking out an IV, etc. A nurse even took out my catheter. The doctor was somebody you'd see for maybe 2 minutes every morning, and he was mainly asking the nurse how you were doing.

Things like changing sheets, cleaning up, bringing you food/water etc. was handled by Group 4 people.

[SueEllen]

Nurse Practitioners still have to hand over complex illnesses and investigations to doctors whether they are a GP or specialist, but if your condition is stable or it your illness is one they can handle they deal with it.

There can be advantages as a patient for dealing with one over a GP. For example GPs now don't do blood tests at all, but a nurse practitioner can do one if there is time in appointment and it can get to the lab OK.

[vetran]

Eh? No idea where that came from - wrong.

Doctors in fact have little idea how to do it because they get the nurse to do it.

No I'm Right, it was changed.

For doctor, read nurse - UK - News - The Independent

And then there is the shortage of nurses, highlighted by a report from the RCN this week which showed that unemployment levels among nurses are the lowest they have been for a decade. Between 1983 and 1997 there will be have been a cutback of 55 per cent in the number of student nurses being trained.

The turning point in extending the role of the nurse came with a document published in June 1992 by the United Kingdom Central Council for Nursing, Midwifery and Health Visiting, entitledThe Scope of Professional Practice. In essence, it permits a nurse,midwife or health visitor to care for his or her patient in whatever way they see fit as long as they are competent in the task they undertake and are fully accountable for it. Previously a nurse who took on additional tasks, such as intravenous injections or suturing, needed a proficiency certificate which was specific only for that task and valid only for the hospital where she worked.

follow the money :

The Department of Health was initially reluctant to accept the UKCC document and gave way only because it coincided with demands for the Government to reduce the hours worked by junior doctors.

and yes Nurse Practitioners were created to be cheap doctors. That does not preclude a standard nurse working up the ranks from a non degree background.

In addition to the UKCC document, there has been the rise of the nurse practitioner, an American innovation which is redefining the traditional role of the doctor. There are more than 250 nurse practitioners in England and Wales, working on hospital wards and in health centres, able in certain circumstances to examine a patient, prescribe a drug, monitor a long-term treatment, order an X-ray, give an injection and stitch a wound.

[psychocandy]

from memory up until recently the doctor was the only one who could pierce the skin. Nurses doing IVs was introduced before the degree requirement.

Eh? No idea where that came from - wrong.

Doctors in fact have little idea how to do it because they get the nurse to do it.

[vetran]

LOL. Because a lot of doctors are complete nobheads who dont care about the patients. Surely you'd want an 'educated'person looking after you're wellbeing? Someone who can check what the doctor is doing, knows the drugs, knows the way patients need care etc?

Try asking you're average junior doc to administer an IV.....

Or a glorified arse wiper with no qualifications?

from memory up until recently the doctor was the only one who could pierce the skin. Nurses doing IVs was introduced before the degree requirement.

[psychocandy]

Possibly I will be attacked but I never really understood the requirement for all Nurses to be graduates.

I'm perfectly happy to believe that with experience some may want to retrain or gain a degree later but lets be honest if you were a graduate and you were offered an nice comfy office job 9-5 or cleaning up someones fluids all night for £21K which would you choose? In the City that is hardly a decent wage.

Seems reasonable to limit agency cut to < 10% and increase Bank wages to cut out Agencies long term.

LOL. Because a lot of doctors are complete nobheads who dont care about the patients. Surely you'd want an 'educated'person looking after you're wellbeing? Someone who can check what the doctor is doing, knows the drugs, knows the way patients need care etc?

Try asking you're average junior doc to administer an IV.....

Or a glorified arse wiper with no qualifications?

[vetran]

Cheap jibe. Do our University Graduates get given their degrees or do they purchase them?

at about 15% of visitors it seems like a relevant concern

Fake degrees, but real certificates - HR Future: South Africa's Leading Print, Digital and Online Human Strategy Magazine

Fake degrees: Software tycoon arrested as police investigate credentials from 'Barkley' and 'Columbiana' - Americas - World - The Independent

University of Wales degree and visa scam exposed by BBC - BBC News

[Taita]

Nursing should be vocational in my view and now professional. On that, "professional" really just means getting paid for what you do. Viz, professionals are in it for the pay. I want nurses to be in it for the vocation, not the money. They should really be "angels" in a sense. People you would happily trust with your life, or that of an elderly relative. Less Diamond White and more Florence Nightingale.

If we want pure vocation we could always invite - Médecins Sans Frontières to take over the NHS...... !

[SimonMac]

Cheap jibe. Do our University Graduates get given their degrees or do they purchase them?

Fair point, when I hear "pass" marks around 40% its hard to tell

[Taita]

But is it necessary in basic Nursing, or could you just demand it for Nurse Practitioner giving starter Nurses an NVQ or similar path to it?

Adult nurse: Job description | Prospects.ac.uk



Mary Seacole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We used to have nursing colleges attached to hospitals but they were axed (well before Coalition austerity) to save the Health Trusts money.