Reply to: Britain ahead of 17 other EU countries put together!

[original PM]

Maybe in pounds, but not as a proportion. The greater the proportion of the young, healthy, working you have vs the old, sick and useless, the better off you are. The only fly in the ointment is that young, healthy, working people tend to turn into old, sick and useless people, but that's more true of children and grandchildren as it is of immigrants as many immigrants may well work here and then retire back to their home country.

So the answer is clear: increase immigration and ban people from having babies.

It's quite interesting this - seems 'old people' now almost expect to live to 90-100

where as back in the day they were all popping off at 75

fact is once you get past 80 you are on the way down and never getting back to where you were - do the decent thing n pop eh?!

[VectraMan]

Logan's Run.

Indeed. Though I'm 43 and I haven't got to swim naked with Jenny Agutter yet. I'm not ready for Sanctuary.

[meridian]

Logan's Run.

[VectraMan]

Erm, no, costing less is still a cost, and so the books will be further out.

Maybe in pounds, but not as a proportion. The greater the proportion of the young, healthy, working you have vs the old, sick and useless, the better off you are. The only fly in the ointment is that young, healthy, working people tend to turn into old, sick and useless people, but that's more true of children and grandchildren as it is of immigrants as many immigrants may well work here and then retire back to their home country.

So the answer is clear: increase immigration and ban people from having babies.

[meridian]

Immigrants tend to be younger, healthy, working age people. Maybe ultimately they cost the overall economy taking into account what DaveB said, but if they're costing the overall economy less than the average Brit, then at least we're getting a bit closer to making the books balance.

Erm, no, costing less is still a cost, and so the books will be further out.

I understand what you're saying, and there are real and understandable concerns over our ageing population and our ability to provide a safety net to pensioners, but more immigration is not a panacea, it's just kicking the can down the road.

Sooner or later our politicians will need to make hard decisions on things like state pensions, NHS, etc, and the public that are used to their handouts are not going to like it. And it'll be my kids and grandkids that end up paying for it.

[BrilloPad]

Does that include anyone who comes here to retire? What about children or non-working wives?

Of course dependants go with the bread winner.

Who would want to retire here? Even if they did, we have an aging population and can't take any more.

[VectraMan]

"jobless migrants deported after six months without work"

Does that include anyone who comes here to retire? What about children or non-working wives?

The problem with all this is talking about migrants as all the same. EU migrants are the same as Scottish migrants and shouldn't be counted as part of the same figures or treated the same way.

[lilelvis2000]

Looks like the now 'unleased from LibDems' Tories are proposing to toughen things up..

"migrants - no benefits for 4 years"
"jobless migrants deported after six months without work"
"stop child benefit being sent to children living abroad"
"collision course with other European heads of state"

12:25, Wed, May 13, 2015. Latest UK and World News, Sport and Comment | Daily Express (admittedly a veery right of center paper)

a couple of these a somewhat vague really.

EU law is pretty strict on when you can deport someone so I presume he's talking about non-EU migrants?
I already thought that a EU migrant can't claim benefits - aside from JSA if they've been employed for a certain about of time - for 5 years anyway. So that could just be hot air.
Good luck on the other two.

Cameron will find it easier sailing in a coalition as his uber right-wing will be setting the agenda now.

[d000hg]

Well those were all things Cameron directly promised in TV debates.

[SunnyInHades]

Looks like the now 'unleased from LibDems' Tories are proposing to toughen things up..

"migrants - no benefits for 4 years"
"jobless migrants deported after six months without work"
"stop child benefit being sent to children living abroad"
"collision course with other European heads of state"

12:25, Wed, May 13, 2015. Latest UK and World News, Sport and Comment | Daily Express (admittedly a veery right of center paper)

[SlipTheJab]

You mean the man that promised to lower net migration to sub 100,000. I reckon the best way to do that is to make it even more tulip here so even more Brits will leave. The way it sounds right now, the govt. will soon start encouraging people to leave for ISIS.

Problem as we all know is that he has **** all control over EU migration, until he does its a waste of time trying.

[VectraMan]

So we're agreed then, that migrants will cost the overall economy (and therefore UK taxpayers) more in the long run.

Saying "they cost, but not as much as a local" does not seem to me to be a great argument in favour of immigration, though.

Immigrants tend to be younger, healthy, working age people. Maybe ultimately they cost the overall economy taking into account what DaveB said, but if they're costing the overall economy less than the average Brit, then at least we're getting a bit closer to making the books balance.

[meridian]

Very few people are net contributors in terms of direct taxation payments. In fact you only actually become a net contributor once you hit the 40% tax bracket, and most people don't. Even then it's small numbers unless you are really earning big bucks. And at that point tax planning comes in as people try to minimise what they pay.

Migrants still make up a relatively small proportion of the population, there are still far more net takers than net givers in the native population.

Are you a contributor to, or a burden on, the nation's finances? - 'Squeezed middle' increasingly dependent on the state | This is Money
How much we give the state in tax – and how much we get back - Telegraph

So we're agreed then, that migrants will cost the overall economy (and therefore UK taxpayers) more in the long run.

Saying "they cost, but not as much as a local" does not seem to me to be a great argument in favour of immigration, though.

[lilelvis2000]

Hopefully Cameron can sort this out now the Lib Dems have self destructed, takes the p!ss and as for the thousands sailing here from Libya, agree with May, drop them back off where they started from.

You mean the man that promised to lower net migration to sub 100,000. I reckon the best way to do that is to make it even more tulip here so even more Brits will leave. The way it sounds right now, the govt. will soon start encouraging people to leave for ISIS.

[BrilloPad]

Theresa May: economic migrants fleeing across Mediterranean should be returned to Africa - Telegraph

She has got a point!