Reply to: Iraq torture 'worse after Saddam'

[wendigo100]

The Iraq war, as opposed to the Afghanistan war, is and was a moral pragmatic, tactical and strategic failure. I still don't understand the decision behind it.

It was Blair's sprint for glory.

[sasguru]

The Iraq war, as opposed to the Afghanistan war, is and was a moral pragmatic, tactical and strategic failure. I still don't understand the decision behind it. The situaution is getting worse by the day but the press and public have "Iraq fatigue' and can't be bothered anymore ...

[xoggoth]

If high moral ground doesn't matter maybe then we should just be more honest about reasons for war and stop pretending there is one. It does not alter the fact that any occupation is not helped by antagonising the general populace more than victory demands as even the Romans had the sense to realise, especially when all that is required is proper supervision of young recruits.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Well I dont see how you cannot care about it becuase its core to this whole occupation. The war was sold to the general public on precisely that argument.

Basically promising "freedom and democracy" and "liberation" from the evil clutuches of Saddam. Sold to the electorate as the "right thing to do" and our moral obligation

The parties responsible for the invasion have not really done a very good job of selling democracy to the very people they promised it to?

A lot of people probaly think that if this is "democracy" they would rather have dictatorship.

In effect we have won nothing except responsibility for an unwinnable war in a region our own leaders have demonstrated by their actions that they know very little about. Arguably we have also won ourselves a period of greater geopolitical instability owing to our leaders action.

If you think we have "won" this war you are very much mistaken and when "sh1t happens" and you get maimed by a suicide bomber maybe you will revise your attitude.

You can almost relate it to the spread of communism, the Reds promised the earth and delivered eff all. And we all know what happened there.

Good points, however the basis for the War was that Iraq was in possession of WMDs and Blair stated we were 45 minutes from oblivion and there was no time for the UN Weapon Inspectors to complete the work ... so a bloody War of Shock and Awe killing thousands of people was launched.

The feifdom and demockracy, sorry freedom and democracy bit only emerged later as a kind of feeble post sales strategy.

[sunnysan]

Moral High ground

Well I dont see how you cannot care about it becuase its core to this whole occupation. The war was sold to the general public on precisely that argument.

Basically promising "freedom and democracy" and "liberation" from the evil clutuches of Saddam. Sold to the electorate as the "right thing to do" and our moral obligation

The parties responsible for the invasion have not really done a very good job of selling democracy to the very people they promised it to?

A lot of people probaly think that if this is "democracy" they would rather have dictatorship.

In effect we have won nothing except responsibility for an unwinnable war in a region our own leaders have demonstrated by their actions that they know very little about. Arguably we have also won ourselves a period of greater geopolitical instability owing to our leaders action.

If you think we have "won" this war you are very much mistaken and when "sh1t happens" and you get maimed by a suicide bomber maybe you will revise your attitude.

You can almost relate it to the spread of communism, the Reds promised the earth and delivered eff all. And we all know what happened there.

[AlfredJPruffock]

I really couldnt give a rats arse about the moral high ground. All Im interested in is winning...and if that means cheating, then so be it!

Outside of laalaa land naughty things HAVE always happened in wars...you gotta be some kind of anti-anything to do with america goon to think this is a modern day problem.

At times like this I like to apply a healthy does of "sh1t happens"

Mailman

As I predcited before the Lebanon fiasco, the only winners will be the guys selling the guns ie Millitary Industrial Complex.

By definition a War on Terror, rather like the War on Drugs are not winnable by using solely millitary means.

You cannot use a millitary solution for a a foreign policy failure.

[Mailman]

I really couldnt give a rats arse about the moral high ground. All Im interested in is winning...and if that means cheating, then so be it!

Outside of laalaa land naughty things HAVE always happened in wars...you gotta be some kind of anti-anything to do with america goon to think this is a modern day problem.

At times like this I like to apply a healthy does of "sh1t happens"

Mailman

[xoggoth]

You may be correct about the may mailman but it seems to me that those who claim the moral high ground and set out to liberate others from nasty dictators have a duty to be rather more than "no worse" or "a bit better" than the regime they have ousted. Leaving aside the moral crap, the apparent failure of those in charge to at least control the behaviour of their own ranks is likely to have a significant adverse impact on their success in acheiving the stated aims.

[AlfredJPruffock]

Under Sadam the Iraqi people were being tortured by a dictatorship. The people today are happy to know they are being tortured by a democratic government and their oil is not being wasted on their third world economy but happy in the knowledge that they get a fair price for their oil in the way of war reparations and protection money so it can be used to fuel the USA.

Not foregetting they can also freely elect the torturer of their choice.

Isnt fiefdom and demockracy marvellous!

[Paddy]

Under Sadam the Iraqi people were being tortured by a dictatorship. The people today are happy to know they are being tortured by a democratic government and their oil is not being wasted on their third world economy but happy in the knowledge that they get a fair price for their oil in the way of war reparations and protection money so it can be used to fuel the USA.

[Andyw]

1,2 & 2

Industrial

[AlfredJPruffock]

Since when did the word MAY mean anything other than it MIGHT of happened? Or in anti-anything to do with america speak does the word MAY mean something has been confirmed?

I mean...thats a bit like saying some of you contractors may actually know what you are talking about at work

The again, take out all the sh1t carried out by them freedom loving terrorists and I think you will find torture no where near as bad as that under peace loving saddam

Mailman

I think we should all b be proud that we can torture better than they can.

[AlfredJPruffock]

That's after more than 3 years, soon will be close to the time of WW2 and costs are probably already higher ($500 bln and counting).

And where is cheap oil?

Atw do you think the Millitary Industrial launches war to

1 Provide Cheap Oil for consumers

or

2 Increase the price of oil to create bumper profits for the Oil Industry

And do you think that the Millitary Industrial complex would

1 Use as little bombs and ammunitions as possible to preserve human life

2 Drop as many bombs as possible in order to maximise the defence sectors share price and profits

[Mailman]

Torture MAY be worse now

Since when did the word MAY mean anything other than it MIGHT of happened? Or in anti-anything to do with america speak does the word MAY mean something has been confirmed?

I mean...thats a bit like saying some of you contractors may actually know what you are talking about at work

The again, take out all the sh1t carried out by them freedom loving terrorists and I think you will find torture no where near as bad as that under peace loving saddam

Mailman

[stackpole]

Blair is a complete fuckwit and should have foreseen this happening.

On a lighter note, he will die one day and I hope I'm still around to enjoy it!