Reply to: A long walk to the Bar

[Batcher]

Make sure you eat different meals. We don't want the entire Yes campaign to be wiped out by one batch of dodgy mushy peas.

It was a very nice meal and not a mushy pea in sight

[Batcher]

This is quite correct, but the above description determines whether you're tax resident, i.e. taxable on worldwide income. However what contractors often do not realise is that being non-resident doesn't mean you're not liable for taxes.

Many a contractor have fallen into this trap carefully avoiding being in a country for more than 183 days only to find that they have unwittingly evaded taxes.

You see it's a little more complicated if you work through your own Ltd company.

Capital Consulting - Can I work for up to 183 days abroad without paying tax?



Here is some info from HMRC on examples of tax you pay if you are not UK resident.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/overview



In other words assume you pay tax on UK income unless there is some exception.

If you have a contract with a Scottish company (agencies don't count) and they send you to England to for a few months to install some equipment for example, that would not be taxable. However getting a contract at an English company would be taxable. You need to be familiar with the principle of an “economic employer” i.e. who pays your bills, and tax laws generally exclude employment intermediaries in determining who this is.

That's assuming there isn't an agreement between the two countries in the event of Scottish independence. There will be a couple of years uncoupling various departments and it might be easier to let you pay tax in your country of residence/Ltd company head office.

With the countries sharing an island I think they will move to make it less complicated but you never know. I'll just stick to contracting in Scotland or working Plan B

[zemoxyl]

Cameron leading a minority government won't happen unless Labour supports him at the Queen's speech in a vote of confidence. If Labour do that they will lose all their support in the UK.
.

All the bookies are giving Cameron as favourite to become PM. The estimated number of seats being in the 280-285 range for the Tories. Well short of the required 323.
I very much doubt Labour will attempt to vote down the Queen's speech. There's nothing new in a minority government. Been a few of those before. As ever, the continuation of the old 2 party system is the priority.

[BlasterBates]

Planning on dying within the next 5 years?

Obviously I would arrange things like working from home, etc depending on the way the two versions of HMRC arrange themselves. My feeling is they would have a reciprocal agreement as we would are an island and wouldn't want to stop companies trading easily across the border. If you treat the UK mentioned here as Scotland and England as abroad than I think it could work as I think it will.

Contracting abroad: everything you need to know



Contracting abroad
If you’re just going abroad for a few weeks or months and want to work whilst you’re away, then there usually won’t be any tax issues to consider.

However, if you’re planning on moving abroad permanently, or for a period of three years or more, you will be treated as not resident in the UK from the date of departure. If you are no longer a resident, you will no longer have to pay UK tax.

The situation is a bit more complex if you’re planning to frequently return to the UK. If you do this, you will remain a resident and liable to pay tax unless your visits are less than:

•183 days in any tax year

•An average of 91 days per tax year over a period of four years

On top of this, HMRC will take into account a number of other factors, including:

•Your family ties

•Social ties, such as memberships at UK clubs or societies

•If you still have a house in the UK

•If you have any work ties, including whether you’re still the director of your limited company

Note that for the 91 day test, qualitative evidence will also be looked at to determine your residency, such as whether or not you’ve bought property abroad. If this is seen as insufficient to suggest you’ve left the UK, you will be treated as a resident for the first three years, after which the situation will be reviewed.

What implications does this have? If you are only a UK resident for part of a tax year you may, in certain circumstances, have your tax adjusted so you only pay on income and capital gains for the part of the year that you are living in the UK. This is called ‘split-year treatment’.

This is quite correct, but the above description determines whether you're tax resident, i.e. taxable on worldwide income. However what contractors often do not realise is that being non-resident doesn't mean you're not liable for taxes.

Many a contractor have fallen into this trap carefully avoiding being in a country for more than 183 days only to find that they have unwittingly evaded taxes.

You see it's a little more complicated if you work through your own Ltd company.

Capital Consulting - Can I work for up to 183 days abroad without paying tax?

The 183-day rule is only applicable to full-time employees on business trips abroad: it is the limit up to which they are allowed to continue paying tax in their usual country of work. Working as an employee of your own limited company abroad will not make you eligible for this ruling, as many European countries don't recognise this stucture.

Here is some info from HMRC on examples of tax you pay if you are not UK resident.

https://www.gov.uk/tax-uk-income-live-abroad/overview

You usually have to pay tax on your UK income even if you’re not a UK resident.

In other words assume you pay tax on UK income unless there is some exception.

If you have a contract with a Scottish company (agencies don't count) and they send you to England to for a few months to install some equipment for example, that would not be taxable. However getting a contract at an English company would be taxable. You need to be familiar with the principle of an “economic employer” i.e. who pays your bills, and tax laws generally exclude employment intermediaries in determining who this is.

[Batcher]

Bogeyman Salmond makes non-news

Lesley Riddoch

[Batcher]

He said he was going to work in England and pay his taxes in Scotland.

Well if you live in France and work in the UK you pay your taxes in the UK.

Of course Scotland isn't an independent country so we don't know how the agreement would be , but it is probable it would have the same rule as the other European countries, and hence Scottish contractors working in England would pay English taxes.

Of course all this is hypothetical and I doubt whether it will be an issue in our lifetime.

"The End"

Planning on dying within the next 5 years?

Obviously I would arrange things like working from home, etc depending on the way the two versions of HMRC arrange themselves. My feeling is they would have a reciprocal agreement as we would are an island and wouldn't want to stop companies trading easily across the border. If you treat the UK mentioned here as Scotland and England as abroad than I think it could work as I think it will.

Contracting abroad: everything you need to know



Contracting abroad
If you’re just going abroad for a few weeks or months and want to work whilst you’re away, then there usually won’t be any tax issues to consider.

However, if you’re planning on moving abroad permanently, or for a period of three years or more, you will be treated as not resident in the UK from the date of departure. If you are no longer a resident, you will no longer have to pay UK tax.

The situation is a bit more complex if you’re planning to frequently return to the UK. If you do this, you will remain a resident and liable to pay tax unless your visits are less than:

•183 days in any tax year

•An average of 91 days per tax year over a period of four years

On top of this, HMRC will take into account a number of other factors, including:

•Your family ties

•Social ties, such as memberships at UK clubs or societies

•If you still have a house in the UK

•If you have any work ties, including whether you’re still the director of your limited company

Note that for the 91 day test, qualitative evidence will also be looked at to determine your residency, such as whether or not you’ve bought property abroad. If this is seen as insufficient to suggest you’ve left the UK, you will be treated as a resident for the first three years, after which the situation will be reviewed.

What implications does this have? If you are only a UK resident for part of a tax year you may, in certain circumstances, have your tax adjusted so you only pay on income and capital gains for the part of the year that you are living in the UK. This is called ‘split-year treatment’.

[BlasterBates]

So, at the very start of this particular part of the discussion, when Batcher said that he would continue to work in England (or other EU countries) in the event of Scottish independence, did he declare that he wouldn't follow the tax rules ? You and Mal were the ones who said he wouldn't be allowed to. No one suggested that he would evading tax while doing it, except you. What is the relevance to the argument. Evading tax in the country that you work in is illegal, we get that. these rules don't just apply to Scots tough, they apply to everyone.

He said he was going to work in England and pay his taxes in Scotland.

Well if you live in France and work in the UK you pay your taxes in the UK.

Of course Scotland isn't an independent country so we don't know how the agreement would be , but it is probable it would have the same rule as the other European countries, and hence Scottish contractors working in England would pay English taxes.

Of course all this is hypothetical and I doubt whether it will be an issue in our lifetime.

"The End"

[TestMangler]

Working outside your own country is illegal ? no wrong!!!

Working outside your own country and not paying tax in the other country is illegal

So, at the very start of this particular part of the discussion, when Batcher said that he would continue to work in England (or other EU countries) in the event of Scottish independence, did he declare that he wouldn't follow the tax rules ? You and Mal were the ones who said he wouldn't be allowed to. No one suggested that he would evading tax while doing it, except you. What is the relevance to the argument. Evading tax in the country that you work in is illegal, we get that. these rules don't just apply to Scots tough, they apply to everyone.

[BlasterBates]

Working outside your own country is illegal ? Really ? Is that how you're justifying your argument ?

Or are you suggesting that Scottish people don't follow the rules when it comes to working abroad or will we unilaterally be disallowed from doing so ?

I don't understand your contention here, other than that you've made something up to justify your dislike for democracy.

Working outside your own country is illegal ? no wrong!!!

Working outside your own country and not paying tax in the other country is illegal

[TestMangler]

Not at all....

But you can't simply use a Scottish company to contract in other countries. Well you can but you need to set up a foreign branch and pay tax there.

Quite simple, there are exceptions but if you do it for any length of time you'll be up for tax evasion.

Just pointing out that what you're suggesting is illegal.

Working outside your own country is illegal ? Really ? Is that how you're justifying your argument ?

Or are you suggesting that Scottish people don't follow the rules when it comes to working abroad or will we unilaterally be disallowed from doing so ?

I don't understand your contention here, other than that you've made something up to justify your dislike for democracy.

[BlasterBates]

My company is Scottish. It was registered in Scotland in 1995. There is no issue here.

Why don't you put up a poll to see how many people have faced your mythical issues as outlined above ? Don't remember seeing any of these things happening on the numerous "I've been offered a contract in France/Germany/spain/Italy" threads. Even Suity didn't end up in a German jail and if it's goint to happen, it's going to happen to him.

Unless of course you're just being racist and saying "I won't allow smelly jocks into my country if they try to have a say in my government"

Not at all....

But you can't simply use a Scottish company to contract in other countries. Well you can but you need to set up a foreign branch and pay tax there.

Quite simple, there are exceptions but if you do it for any length of time you'll be up for tax evasion.

Just pointing out that what you're suggesting is illegal. If you do it for a few weeks they won't chase it up because there isn't enough tax, and some countries are lassaiz faire, but you never know. IN Luxembourg they used to be lassaiz faire and then stopped being lassez faire all of a sudden.

It's a mine field.

Trouble is it can be several years before they catch up with you and when you get caught it's a massive bill for a couple of hundred grand.

I worked alongside a contractor who received a 200 grand bill two years after leaving Germany.

But when Scotland leaves the UK you're perfectly welcome to work in England just watch out for the taxman.

[Batcher]

Stop using common sense approaches (that work all over the EU) as arguments against the little Englanders. They're having a little hissy fit and no amount of reality is going to stop them banging their little feet in a pointless manner

[Batcher]

Why in God's name would a Welshman join the EDL?

OK, I'm being deliberately extreme to make the point that the SNP position is fundamentally untenable but they're so wrapped up in their own propaganda they can't - or won't - see it.

I think you'll find it's not our propaganda. It's project fear version II but this time being pushed out to rUK to get the Daily Mail readers all hot & bothered.

Wings Over Scotland | A fundamental misunderstanding

Scotland is still part of the UK. Both Cameron and Miliband fervently wished it to be so, and fought hard and dirtily to make sure it stayed that way. Neither of them has any place bleating about the impact of Scottish votes on UK democracy, because they’re responsible for the UK still including Scotland.

[TestMangler]

My Ltd is registered in Scotland, I've worked in Europe and haven't had any problems so far. I worked in Dublin and people travelled down from NI to work there too and no-one had any issues paying tax in their base country. No-one ever mentioned the tax authorities in Dublin giving them grief.

I'm sure there would be a cross border agreement with each other's tax collection agencies in the case of Scottish independence.

Stop using common sense approaches (that work all over the EU) as arguments against the little Englanders. They're having a little hissy fit and no amount of reality is going to stop them banging their little feet in a pointless manner

[Batcher]

What you should do is spend an hour ot two at a German police station, where you have a high chance of meeting someone who f**ed up on cross border taxation issues.

...and expect at some point to receive a letter explaining your whereabouts on all weekends you weren't "allegedly" in the country, and why the centre of your life is actually in X but not in Y, with 50 grand riding on the right answer.

I will never ever work cross border again, never .....

never ever

...but good luck with your Scotland/England border issues and the complex question on whether your company is Scottish or English and whether they really are business trips, and enquiries from HMRC and Scottish HMRC doing their routine enquires, and you look forward to long winded discussions with your English and Scottish tax advisors and their non-comittal "might" and "possibly"'s....yes good luck.

One thing I can say is you would never see me in Scotland other than to "march through the heather" and drink drambuie..

My Ltd is registered in Scotland, I've worked in Europe and haven't had any problems so far. I worked in Dublin and people travelled down from NI to work there too and no-one had any issues paying tax in their base country. No-one ever mentioned the tax authorities in Dublin giving them grief.

I'm sure there would be a cross border agreement with each other's tax collection agencies in the case of Scottish independence.