Reply to: PR Disaster

[pjclarke]

As opposed to advertising the free treatment and becoming a world magnet?

HIV as a disease has not affected male homosexuals exclusively in a very long time so how is it possible to say that to prevent carriers going anywhere is homophobic, especially when lesbians who never had a male partner or engaged in other risky behaviours like sharing needles would be unlikely to ever be exposed?

I know that. You know that. UKIP, maybe not so much ...

The wages of promiscuity is deadly disease. It is now at last admitted, even in official circles, that HIV is chiefly a disease of homosexuals and drug-abusers – and that a far greater percentage of homosexuals than heterosexuals do drugs.

Christopher Monckton, former deputy leader and Scottish president.
Former UKIP deputy leader: Gays sleep with up to 20,000 people in their ‘short, miserable lives’ · PinkNews

Treatment has been free for three years now. You might want to take on board the last section of this document...

http://www.nat.org.uk/media/Files/Pu...imary-Care.pdf

or this ...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...crecy-analysis

[tractor]

......

Sorry, as the post was a response to Nige's comment about HIV, I assumed that was what you meant. The point is applicable to all illnesses, though. If you ban entry to carriers, they'll likely just conceal the condition and end up costing us all more....

As opposed to advertising the free treatment and becoming a world magnet?

HIV as a disease has not affected male homosexuals exclusively in a very long time so how is it possible to say that to prevent carriers going anywhere is homophobic, especially when lesbians who never had a male partner or engaged in other risky behaviours like sharing needles would be unlikely to ever be exposed?

[pjclarke]

The anti-UKIP nutters form no part of my tribe, whatever that may be. (One of them had some pieces published in the Graun four years ago, really? )

Will Nige be cancelling his newspaper columns, books and TV appearances because some young loonies sat on his car? Aldi do a perfectly serviceable tin foil, if you need some new headgear.

The 'Green thuggery' at a council meeting about the fate of a local park (where DO you get this stuff?) turns out to be no such thing, the single Green there was polite throughout (video available).

And now a TwitterStorm in a teacup from back in January.

What next? I quake in my boots.

[MicrosoftBob]

What's the matter diddums ?

you post a gleeful thread about a party having a PR disaster, then you don't like it when people come back with ten PR disasters for your own tribe.

People in glass houses should really be more careful about throwing stones

Have we done the transphobic eco warrior yet

Not that I'd want to throw stones at people in carbon neutral glass houses

[EternalOptimist]

What's the matter diddums ?

you post a gleeful thread about a party having a PR disaster, then you don't like it when people come back with ten PR disasters for your own tribe.

People in glass houses should really be more careful about throwing stones

[pjclarke]

yet more Green thuggery

'THE leader of the national Green Party has launched an investigation into the conduct of her members at a public meeting which ended when veteran Birkenhead MP Frank Field was rushed to hospital after a shock collapse.'

This is becoming an unhealthy obsession. An eyewitness writes ...

Firstly let me state that I personally have no political affiliation & nor does anyone else in the campaign group.
Unfortunately though, Friday's meeting is seemingly being reported as a Green Party/Trotsky/Militant led attack on Labour politicians yet this was categorically not the case.

We have met the prospective Green Party councillor through this campaign & he has been nothing but supportive to us - However, he is not representative of us, is not part of the Facebook campaign group & he came in an individual capacity to the meeting on Friday.

There were no Green Party / Trotskyists or Militant Group agitators in the room, despite what Frank said at the beginning of the meeting & what has since been reported.

As I have said, the prospective Green Councillor was there in an individual capacity & asked one question about referring the matter to the Secretary of State - This was well constructed & was in no way aggressive.

All questions asked on the night were by individual residents, although admittedly, some may have felt unfavourably towards the MP & councillors. Some may indeed have been loud, assertive & persistent, but there was no physical threat to Mr Field.

https://www.facebook.com/SaveRockFer...oolandenvirons

Sorry to disappoint. BTW is there a central Bishop Hill style clearing house for this bollux, or do you trawl the regional press yourself?

[pjclarke]

you were asked why they should be let in, you replied by saying you think they should be treated when they are in.

then you accuse others of kneejerk judgements.

You were explicitly asked about general communicable diseases yet you continue to argue about HIV.

Sorry, as the post was a response to Nige's comment about HIV, I assumed that was what you meant. The point is applicable to all illnesses, though. If you ban entry to carriers, they'll likely just conceal the condition and end up costing us all more....

[vetran]

How about lab rats?

seriously unkind

[vetran]

That is too narrow a viewpoint, in my opinion. HIV treatment was made free to immigrants - bringing it into line with other STIs - in 2012 after lobbying from, amongst others, the BMA. They recognised that dissuading people from seeking early diagnosis and treatment costs more in the long term.

The BMA has longstanding concerns regarding the restriction of access to healthcare for vulnerable groups such as undocumented migrants and refused asylum seekers …

‘Restricting access to ongoing treatment for progressive illnesses on the grounds of cost until more urgent or emergency treatment is required is also both uneconomical and raises significant ethical issues,

(Sorry to drag ethics into it)
Refuse entry to HIV sufferers who are otherwise eligible to come here or make them pay for treatment and they will likely come anyway and simply not disclose the disease, the later you start treatment, the worse, and more expensive, the outcome.

Typical kneejerk Nige. And why pick on HIV as opposed to say, hepatitis? Surely not homophobia ……….

you were asked why they should be let in, you replied by saying you think they should be treated when they are in.

then you accuse others of kneejerk judgements.

You were explicitly asked about general communicable diseases yet you continue to argue about HIV.

[pjclarke]

can you make a positive financial and social case for importing people with a communicable disease which will cost far more to treat than they can pay in tax?

That is too narrow a viewpoint, in my opinion. HIV treatment was made free to immigrants - bringing it into line with other STIs - in 2012 after lobbying from, amongst others, the BMA. They recognised that dissuading people from seeking early diagnosis and treatment costs more in the long term.

The BMA has longstanding concerns regarding the restriction of access to healthcare for vulnerable groups such as undocumented migrants and refused asylum seekers …

‘Restricting access to ongoing treatment for progressive illnesses on the grounds of cost until more urgent or emergency treatment is required is also both uneconomical and raises significant ethical issues,

(Sorry to drag ethics into it)
Refuse entry to HIV sufferers who are otherwise eligible to come here or make them pay for treatment and they will likely come anyway and simply not disclose the disease, the later you start treatment, the worse, and more expensive, the outcome.

Typical kneejerk Nige. And why pick on HIV as opposed to say, hepatitis? Surely not homophobia ……….

[darmstadt]

can you make a positive financial and social case for importing people with a communicable disease which will cost far more to treat than they can pay in tax?

How about lab rats?

[EternalOptimist]

yet more Green thuggery

'THE leader of the national Green Party has launched an investigation into the conduct of her members at a public meeting which ended when veteran Birkenhead MP Frank Field was rushed to hospital after a shock collapse.'

[vetran]

When asked what sort of people should be allowed to migrate to Britain, he said: “People who do not have HIV, to be frank. That’s a good start.

can you make a positive financial and social case for importing people with a communicable disease which will cost far more to treat than they can pay in tax?

[Zero Liability]

Then again, these loons aren't really 'the people', they are outliers and quite clearly not all that sane, which is probably the response any ordinary person would have to them too.

[EternalOptimist]

yep, three coach loads apparently.