Reply to: Who else is reading the CIA report?

[original PM]

He was also at least spared the torture of being beheaded on you tube too.

[minestrone]

Prove it.

I'll be amazed if you can, because the people that tortured him to death can't. They decided circumstantial evidence and hearsay was sufficient.

If someone is proven to be a terrorist I don't really give a rats ass what happens to them (which is why the rest of that document doesn't bother me).

Its the conviction without proof that worries me. Any of us could be disappeared and killed using the same justification.

Your death could then be publicly documented and another muppet like you would be all "well I'm sure he deserved it. They claimed he was a terrorist"

I'm sure freezing to death was not pleasant but he was at least spared the torture of reading your posts.

[MarillionFan]

Prove it.

I'll be amazed if you can, because the people that tortured him to death can't. They decided circumstantial evidence and hearsay was sufficient.

If someone is proven to be a terrorist I don't really give a rats ass what happens to them (which is why the rest of that document doesn't bother me).

Its the conviction without proof that worries me. Any of us could be disappeared and killed using the same justification.

Your death could then be publicly documented and another muppet like you would be all "well I'm sure he deserved it. They claimed he was a terrorist"

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, especially against a torturing tyrannical child murdering government.

[NickyBoy]

This chap was an Al Qaeda top man

Prove it.

I'll be amazed if you can, because the people that tortured him to death can't. They decided circumstantial evidence and hearsay was sufficient.

If someone is proven to be a terrorist I don't really give a rats ass what happens to them (which is why the rest of that document doesn't bother me).

Its the conviction without proof that worries me. Any of us could be disappeared and killed using the same justification.

Your death could then be publicly documented and another muppet like you would be all "well I'm sure he deserved it. They claimed he was a terrorist"

[OwlHoot]

I read up to page 5,500 and then gave up. It's just too long

Can someone who has read the whole thing summarise it in a few lines? TIA

[minestrone]

This guy was a suspected militant. Emphasis on suspected.

And they tortured him to death.

He was dragged in because he was visiting a doctor for a medical check-up when that doctor was arrested due to the doctors links to terrorism.


By that justification, any one of you could be tortured to death if your GP happened to be a militant and he was arrested while you were there.

You have to be amazingly short-sighted to not see how that precedent is more dangerous than any terrorist attack this abuse might have prevented.

The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is the fundamental bedrock of our society because without it anyone can be claimed to be suspected of anything and then abused based on that.

Welcome to 21st century witch-hunting :S

The presumption of innocence before trail comes from the Romans. Them lot who kept slaves, invaded places and liked to do quite a lot of slaughtering before trial in them invaded places.

This chap was an Al Qaeda top man, and I have no sympathy for him because he forgot to wear his danmart thermals that day. Torture, or more the implicit knowledge that torture is going to be done is a necessary part of the industry they are engaged in so the advertising that they are being tortured is vital.

As an aside I researched the psychology of torture from both the victim and the torturer perspectives a few years ago for sporting purposes.

[NickyBoy]

This guy was a suspected militant. Emphasis on suspected.

And they tortured him to death.

He was dragged in because he was visiting a doctor for a medical check-up when that doctor was arrested due to the doctors links to terrorism.


By that justification, any one of you could be tortured to death if your GP happened to be a militant and he was arrested while you were there.

You have to be amazingly short-sighted to not see how that precedent is more dangerous than any terrorist attack this abuse might have prevented.

The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is the fundamental bedrock of our society because without it anyone can be claimed to be suspected of anything and then abused based on that.

Welcome to 21st century witch-hunting :S

[FatLazyContractor]

And yet the West has brought Russia to its knees without firing a bullet.

The west hasn't "yet" got the round things that hang around it's thighs to fire a bullet at Russia. Do you read the Scottish Herald for news lad?

[scooterscot]

Modern warfare, nature of the devil and all that son. Everything is relative.

Do you expect the "allies" to take a Yoga guru to these scoundrels and teach them meditation, peace and a truck load of bollox?

And yet the West has brought Russia to its knees without firing a bullet.

[FatLazyContractor]

Weakness in mind is no substitute for lost strength. We should be setting an example not fighting fire with fire.

Modern warfare, nature of the devil and all that son. Everything is relative.

Do you expect the "allies" to take a Yoga guru to these scoundrels and teach them meditation, peace and a truck load of bollox?

[scooterscot]

FTFY. HTH

Weakness in mind is no substitute for lost strength. We should be setting an example not fighting fire with fire.

[FatLazyContractor]

The day we stoop to their level we've prevented more attacks.

FTFY. HTH

[scooterscot]

Civility is relative, not an absolute.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for this person.

The day we stoop to their level we've already lost.

[minestrone]

Civility is relative, not an absolute.

I have absolutely zero sympathy for this person.

[tractor]

...

Not the actions of a civilised society. And to think our PM at the time was in bed with Bush.

Yes, but he is now the ME Peace Envoy