Reply to: Skills shortages holding back the UK's economic recovery

[SueEllen]

Not really. I had a few half-hour sit downs with people explaining their software to me, but that's about it. Nobody's ever taught me anything about programming (other than at university).

Despite that, it always seems ridiculous to me that people spend three years at a university, and then come out expecting to be a trainee. Why is three years at what it supposed to be the highest educational establishments in the land not enough to be able to do things?

There are more jobs in IT than programming which need other skills.

University doesn't teach you things like customer service skills and not everyone takes full advantage of the extra-curricular activities on offer so they don't learn skills such as how to be on a team.

You need to remember not all 21 year olds have had other jobs before they leave uni.

[vetran]

Because most stuff is actually quite hard and requires more than 3 years to really get it.

It's easy to think what we do is "easy" ... but then everything is easy once you've done it dozens of times over many years.

lots of the stuff is easy the trick is to document & delegate, but firms want their stars to empty the trash and develop space stations.

[tomtomagain]

Despite that, it always seems ridiculous to me that people spend three years at a university, and then come out expecting to be a trainee. Why is three years at what it supposed to be the highest educational establishments in the land not enough to be able to do things?

Because most stuff is actually quite hard and requires more than 3 years to really get it.

It's easy to think what we do is "easy" ... but then everything is easy once you've done it dozens of times over many years.

[VectraMan]

So you have never had on the job training? There hasn't been a more experienced person who has showed you how to do stuff? That is training.

Not really. I had a few half-hour sit downs with people explaining their software to me, but that's about it. Nobody's ever taught me anything about programming (other than at university).

Despite that, it always seems ridiculous to me that people spend three years at a university, and then come out expecting to be a trainee. Why is three years at what it supposed to be the highest educational establishments in the land not enough to be able to do things?

[tractor]

...

one of the reasons people are healthy for longer is keeping them busy after retirement. If they keep working longer many will avoid the debilitating effects of age.

Of course, but sailing around the world or keeping up with hobbies and interests etc more than suffices for most. I just don't see why all these people get on the bandwagon unless it's for votes.

AFA ICT is concerned, I never did a headcount but for 25 years in my career, I have never seen a shortage of women at all levels. Yes, there have naturally been less because of obvious reasons for them to take time out but a shortage is very different to less.

[vetran]

Again, I don't disagree but why should a government be engineering people out of semi/retirement when that may well be part of their life's plan. After all if I had a quid for every time someone mentioned plan b,c or d here and over at IPSE, I wouldn't need a plan a

There are lots of things at play here and globalisation and all this world wide free trade alone is not necessarily the answer to everyone's problems but the cause of many.

It just makes me chuckle when this subject comes up and it's all laid at the feet of women because there are not enough of them just more pc soundbites before the election. If I was a cynic, I would think the government is about to announce 15bn for roads and another 2bn for the NHS...........oh, wait...............

one of the reasons people are healthy for longer is keeping them busy after retirement. If they keep working longer many will avoid the debilitating effects of age.

[tractor]

...

There are lots of women and older people who are economically inactive or not as economically active as they could be. (To put in layman's terms these groups aren't fully employed or employed at all.)

So getting these people working would mean we would need less migrants and as these people would/will be claiming benefits such as pensions anyway, we may as well make them work as much as possible while they are fit enough to do so.

Again, I don't disagree but why should a government be engineering people out of semi/retirement when that may well be part of their life's plan. After all if I had a quid for every time someone mentioned plan b,c or d here and over at IPSE, I wouldn't need a plan a

There are lots of things at play here and globalisation and all this world wide free trade alone is not necessarily the answer to everyone's problems but the cause of many.

It just makes me chuckle when this subject comes up and it's all laid at the feet of women because there are not enough of them just more pc soundbites before the election. If I was a cynic, I would think the government is about to announce 15bn for roads and another 2bn for the NHS...........oh, wait...............

[Eirikur]

The educational system needs a lot of improvement. The level of education at government schools is totally unacceptable. Now spending 30k per year on private education for my kids. I do understand not everybody can afford this and as long as this continues skilled labour from abroad is necessary.

[tractor]

...

So you have never had on the job training? There hasn't been a more experienced person who has showed you how to do stuff? That is training.

However if as a company you sack all your experienced workers, who tend to be older, then you can't do that.


Neither.

Part of the skills shortage they are complaining about is there is no-one who will work permanently for and stay long term with employers who treat their staff like tulip.

...and then whine and cry to Vince Cable for more visas because people who are fed up with being treated like tulip can leave at a moment's notice.

[scooterscot]

I do not think there is a skill shortage

I think there is a shortage of people willing to work for peanuts after spending thousands on being trained.

Some niche engineering sectors do pay well.. but living in the UK is a hell of an expense, suddenly you're back to peanuts.

[SueEllen]

I've never been trained in anything, except at school and university. I'm sure a lot of us would say the same.

So you have never had on the job training? There hasn't been a more experienced person who has showed you how to do stuff? That is training.

However if as a company you sack all your experienced workers, who tend to be older, then you can't do that.

If companies hire useless people from abroad and ruin everything as a result, then that does support the idea that there's a skills shortage. What's better for the company? Cheap foreign useless workers, or expensive British useless workers?

Neither.

Part of the skills shortage they are complaining about is there is no-one who will work permanently for and stay long term with employers who treat their staff like tulip.

[DimPrawn]

I've never been trained in anything, except at school and university. I'm sure a lot of us would say the same.

If companies hire useless people from abroad and ruin everything as a result, then that does support the idea that there's a skills shortage. What's better for the company? Cheap foreign useless workers, or expensive British useless workers?

The only thing they measure is the cost. How many can we get for X. A bigger team is a better team!

[vetran]

What's better for the bosses bonuses? Cheap foreign useless workers, or expensive British useless workers?

FTFY

[VectraMan]

You forgot to add that employers don't believe in paying to train staff now so are using the government to subsidise their training budgets.

I've never been trained in anything, except at school and university. I'm sure a lot of us would say the same.

If companies hire useless people from abroad and ruin everything as a result, then that does support the idea that there's a skills shortage. What's better for the company? Cheap foreign useless workers, or expensive British useless workers?

[vetran]

This is bad news. Sorry to hear of this.

Is the problem simply the skill level of the imported workers? There are certainly some very highly skilled indian body shoppers - has your company gone for cheap ones?

we too suffer, quality varies tremendously and the culture & language barrier slows everything.