Alexander Mann contracts

[Wanderer]

Do Alexander Mann really push OPT-OUT ?

Any of you guys with them and didn't OPT-OUT ?

I discussed this with a friend who contracted through Alexander Mann and didn't opt out. The agent was keen to get an answer on the opt out question but would only say that the contractor had to take independent advice and wouldn't discuss the pros and cons of opting out. In the end there was no opt out and the agent accepted that without argument.

The contract itself had a clause in it saying that certain marked sections did not apply if the worker had not signed the opt out form. It was interesting because you could see the exact differences between the opt out and non opt out contracts (handcuff clause was reduced, they would pay even without signed timesheets and they would pay if regardless of if the client had paid them or not).

Clear and transparent with no coercion to opt out - that is the way agencies should operate in my view.

I had a call for a role and whilst discussing the suitability, the agent asked me if I opt-out or not

Of course, there is the suspicion that you might be a little bit more suitable for a role if you opted out, isn't there!

With all agents I would be inclined to say verbally that you would opt out but if and when the contract paperwork arrives say you have changed your mind and you will not be signing the opt out and this is your legal right to withdraw the opt out before you start work. This will remove the temptation of the agent to downgrade you in favour of an opted out candidate...

[tractor]

..

Hi - yes, their contracts are awful. Quite a few items to change - I got 90% changed - the issue you will have is the 55 degrees of separation between monkey and organ grinder at AMS.
They also refer alot of decisions i asked for back to the client - i assume they then assigned the clause/risk back to the client????
If you want details PM me.

Cheers

That's what they all say - what they are really doing is running back and forth to a director who then relays the question to their first year legal exec and comes back with an answer.

[tractor]

...

Why can't these big agencies work with the likes of the PCG to draft proper contracts.

See PCG forums for some recent suggestions and the answers

[Intention]

Do Alexander Mann really push OPT-OUT ?

Any of you guys with them and didn't OPT-OUT ?

I had a call for a role and whilst discussing the suitability, the agent asked me if I opt-out or not

[TheFaQQer]

I asked AMS to update the contract with the recommended changes and they agreed to take a look. If you read the Request Policy form they send, they state that they will not change the contract if "the change being made is solely to enhance the contractors IR35 status". Its a bit a joke to be honest.

If that's their policy, then I dread to think what the upper contract between agency and client is like.

[quackhandle]

they state that they will not change the contract if "the change being made is solely to enhance the contractors IR35 status".

You would be tempted to just walk away when reading that, but hard to do that if you've been benched for a while. Certainly I'd be inclined to send a formal message to the end client and say the pimp contract terms are unworkable, but then again you could still be inside with your daily working practices (hard to judge I know since you have yet to start the gig.)

Like many sid-u-ayy-shuns in contracting it is who blinks first or who shouts the loudest.


qh

[SueEllen]

Why can't these big agencies work with the likes of the PCG to draft proper contracts.

Because they are feckwits and think that an unfair contract would stand them in good stead if a contractor ever took them to court.

[Wanderer]

Why can't these big agencies work with the likes of the PCG to draft proper contracts.

[pjh]

same issue!

I've had the same issue a few months back with AMS.. Qdos reviewed my contract and it came back with a fail.

I asked AMS to update the contract with the recommended changes and they agreed to take a look. If you read the Request Policy form they send, they state that they will not change the contract if "the change being made is solely to enhance the contractors IR35 status". Its a bit a joke to be honest.

I managed to get 2 of the 5 changes implemented but they would not change the Personal Service/Substitution. Looks like this is standard with all AMS contracts

[shabs5000]

Hi - yes, their contracts are awful. Quite a few items to change - I got 90% changed - the issue you will have is the 55 degrees of separation between monkey and organ grinder at AMS.
They also refer alot of decisions i asked for back to the client - i assume they then assigned the clause/risk back to the client????
If you want details PM me.

Cheers

[jmo21]

Anyone have any recent experience with getting Alexander Mann to update clauses in their contract?
(I've searched!)

Qdos review found issues with their substitution clause.

Only got the review back Friday night so won't get a response from AM til Monday morning.