Reply to: enforce contract notice of 4 weeks or "get a reference"

[TechJinx]

thanks all

Thanks to everyone who responded to this, very helpful!

I've "adjusted" my mindset to think of it as a bonus 2 weeks rather than a lost 2 and it's helped a lot

had another interview already and seemed positive so all good

thanks again

Andy

[SueEllen]

Take the two weeks and happily accidentally give that particular person's name and direct phone number to any agent who asks for "two references".

You are well shot of that client and their idiot staff. Do not go back until you know the t*** has left.

BTW If they took you on to early they could have simply told you the project will resume again in x weeks, there is no work for you now and asked if you would be available.

[tractor]

...

you got 2 weeks, I would just have told you not to come back if you were not of any use, he must be an idiot buring 2 weeks budget on you !!!

OP should accept if they sign the time sheet now and let them go

[tractor]

...

8 from the end, 14 from the start - whichever is later.

I have seen this before, is it not 'whichever is longer'?

[tarbera]

Im surprised

you got 2 weeks, I would just have told you not to come back if you were not of any use, he must be an idiot buring 2 weeks budget on you !!!

[BlasterBates]

Take the money and run, i.e. just accept the 1-2 week pay off. It aint much but the alternative is immediate dismissal.

Yeah it aint fair but isn't worth an expensive wrangle, and at least you get paid for a week or two.

[Antman]

A question regarding the lack of MOO etc...
Aren't the IR35 judgements made of a gig by gig basis? So if you've only been there 3 weeks or something and then get canned, a lack of MOO from an IR35 perspective is not really worth anything at all? If it made you look like a proper business in general (i.e. not on a gig by gig basis then great).

I've been wondering for a while because I see a lot of threads mentioning this - but most of them are for guys that haven't been with clientCo very long. If it had been a 6 month or year long gig then I'd understand it. But for a few weeks, given the low chance of being investigated, it doesn't seem like much of a soothing after being kicked in the nuts.

Am I misunderstanding? or is it just a case of taking what little positivity you can get from the situation?

My understanding is case by case too, so OP will be definitely protected for the couple of weeks at the client.

But I'd take anything I can get for any future investigation to say "proper business here".

[TheFaQQer]

If you opted in, you could be back there direct in 6(?) weeks - so no agency margin.

8 from the end, 14 from the start - whichever is later.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Hi all - any help appreciated

I started my first contract - a transformation Programme manager with a large blue chip at the start of April. Yesterday I was told by my "Pay and rations" that the director didnt want me to stay anymore. long story short they brought me in too early and the programme isnt at a point where anyone can really deliver anything and I've been half twiddling my thumbs and helping the director pull together vague high level plans (not my skillset which is programme/portfolio delivery)

I accepted this with good grace and hd assumed I would have 4 weeks (20 days) as per what is stated in the contract. However the director really wants to save 2 and a bit weeks of my costs so has basically said - "you have until next wednesday or I'm telling the agency you weren't good enough" - paraphrasing as it was framed with "im not threatening but" etc.

so my question is do I try to enforce the 4 weeks?? Can I or will they just go down some kind of competence route??

It's my first contract after many years of perm and my last place gave me a payout that I have as a buffer that will easily last me 2-3 months, but I was really hoping to keep that as my ongoing buffer and I've not had the chance to build anything else up yet.

I've had a fair few jobs (perm ones averaging 1-2 years on projects/programmes) and never taken longer than a month to find something so not worried about finding something within 2-3 months but I do feel like I'm being blackmailed but is this just the nature of the beast of contracting?? How much is this reference and no black mark with my current agency worth??


I've got a call after lunchtime today to give my answer (23 May) so any quick advice and experience would be very well received.

Cheers - Andy

get the request for you to leave in writing (email). That way *if* you do decide to go the full notice route, it'll be obvious that you're being blackmailed when they suddenly decide that you're not competent.

[Eirikur]

How often do you have to give a reference from the end client anyway? I just give them the agency name through which I contracted.

[TheFaQQer]

so my question is do I try to enforce the 4 weeks?? Can I or will they just go down some kind of competence route??

What does your contract say about being paid for not doing any work? If there is something which allows them immediate termination, then there is nothing to be gained from trying to force those extra two weeks, and a lot to lose.

If there isn't, then they could slander you to the agency and you could sue. Whether that will happen, or whether that is a smart course of action is a question that you would need to work out for yourself.

I do feel like I'm being blackmailed but is this just the nature of the beast of contracting??

You are being blackmailed. Probably unnecessarily, IMHO, given that your contract probably gives them the right to immediate termination or the right to only pay you for the days that you work.

How much is this reference and no black mark with my current agency worth??

I wouldn't worry about an agency not thinking much of me - the danger comes if the client tells other people and that impacts your work. I think that's unlikely, though, since you'd have a good case to sue if they did that.

[SpontaneousOrder]

A question regarding the lack of MOO etc...
Aren't the IR35 judgements made of a gig by gig basis? So if you've only been there 3 weeks or something and then get canned, a lack of MOO from an IR35 perspective is not really worth anything at all? If it made you look like a proper business in general (i.e. not on a gig by gig basis then great).

I've been wondering for a while because I see a lot of threads mentioning this - but most of them are for guys that haven't been with clientCo very long. If it had been a 6 month or year long gig then I'd understand it. But for a few weeks, given the low chance of being investigated, it doesn't seem like much of a soothing after being kicked in the nuts.

Am I misunderstanding? or is it just a case of taking what little positivity you can get from the situation?

[TechJinx]

.....Sounds like the client is a massive twat though, so think yourself lucky that you're out of there. .

With your avatar picture I'm imagining Jesse saying that


Thanks for the replies guys - as I thought really but wanted to get some feedback.

on with the search!

[GillsMan]

What Antman said. Sounds like the client is a massive twat though, so think yourself lucky that you're out of there. Anyone who threatens to say you weren't good enough is absolutely not worth working with.

The thing about notice periods is they are essentially pointless (and you want them to be that way for IR35 purposes really). IR35 defence = MOO (Mutuality of Obligation) which essentially says that the client doesn't have to offer you work and you don't have to accept it. So in theory, you could have a three month notice period, and the client could turn around and say that they are giving you three months' notice, oh and by the way, they don't have any work lined up for you for the next three months. No work = no pay.

Nature of the beast as Antman says. The fact that they are keeping you on until Wednesday is a bonus IMO, so let them know that it's no problem. If the client wasn't a total arsehole, I'd add something like "it's been a pleasure working with you, and you have my details if you want to bring me back in when the project is ready". But in this case, I'd just be polite and leave it at that.

[Antman]

Nature of the beast I'd say.

notice period is a pointer to permiedom (lack of MOO) however there was a post about wording the contract to have the notice as a penalty clause which sounded interesting by the by.

Get evidence of the MOO it'll stand you in good defence as a proper business for any potential HMRC investigation.

If you opted in, you could be back there direct in 6(?) weeks - so no agency margin.