Reply to: Career at a crossroads

[SueEllen]

I'm coming up to 54 and have one of best contracts yet. Don't know where the OP gets the idea that 50 is old. I still play football

Easy.

If you don't know any active, healthy and curious people 50+ who aren't your parents it's easy to assume all people that age are "old" as in inactive, sickly and set in their ways.

[Sausage Surprise]

Cant comment on the rest but as to the age thing, I went contracting for the first time at 57. Agents told me I had no chance, but when I went for it Ive never been out of work and am always offered extensions.

I'm coming up to 54 and have one of best contracts yet. Don't know where the OP gets the idea that 50 is old. I still play football

[adam42]

After a lot of deliberation, I went for the finance contract. I'm currently working my way through all the red tape to get myself through security screening now.

The easiest part of the decision - which I'd put the most thought into - was whether to move up North and get that idyllic cottage near the beach, 15 mins from the train station to Newcastle or Edinburgh. In the end my partner got cold feet and didn't want to do it. A city girl born and bred, with no desire to live in the countryside. Guess I should have known despite the momentum I'd built up looking into the whole deal with her.

The permanent job as an option was scratched early on in the process.

The Swiss role still hasn't materialised and would have been a difficult one too, at least to begin with assuming that my partner would have followed which was also not guaranteed.

So the final choice was either the bog-standard non-finance role on the M25, or the low-paid finance role in the City. Although the money in finance is initially going to be worse, I see it as a foot in the door and I'm pretty sure over 2 years I can make massive improvements on the rate, particularly since I will then have a big investment bank name as my last role and the self-employed business will be just a historical anomaly to future employers - at least to the 50% or more who've been binning my CV on a regular basis recently.

Thanks again to everyone for their opinions.

[BlasterBates]

A friend of mine is well into his 60's not far of 70 and still contracting.
I think you need to be known, i.e get some long term clients who know you then it ceases to be a problem as PM's always perfer people who know the system or business well and who are trusted.

In fact the PM keeps repeating he can't work without this guy, simply because of his experience.

So the trick I think is to get your foot behind the door with a couple of longterm clients by the time you're 60 and stick with them for your later years.

[craig1]

One HR manager described it quite well to me. Obviously paraphrased: "We look for younger permanent staff so we can develop them into our culture and then retain them based on internal experience and knowledge of our business, older permanent recruits tend to be far more resistant to cultural change. We look for older contractors and FTC employees because we don't really care if they fully adapt to our culture, we are bringing them in to either cover a gap or provide expert skills that we neither have in-house or would want to keep in-house beyond this narrow bit of work, age is irrelevant".

[TheFaQQer]

Last year for example, I was earning £300 per day working for a client across the other side of the M25 to where I live, life was sweet and holidays and treats were nice. Now I'm working locally and getting about a third of that

How do you manage to make ends meet living that close to London on a day rate of £100?

[pjuk]

Crossroads?

Seems to me you've already been at the crossroads and are now travelling off down another route; there maybe another crossroads coming up but that's life innit? As someone who has reached the dreaded age of which you speak, I've found several things:

I've now been self-employed contractor for much longer than anything I've ever done elsewhere. I'm a life contractor and will never get employed as a permie - I wouldn't take me on so why would anyone else? - so I've had to mix and match what I do. Last year for example, I was earning £300 per day working for a client across the other side of the M25 to where I live, life was sweet and holidays and treats were nice. Now I'm working locally and getting about a third of that (the lowest rate I've had in 25 years of contracting). the job is horrible and I hate it but it's relatively easy and no-one knows what the hell I'm doing. Essentially, I take the crunchie with the smooth and hope for more smooth in the sound knowledge I may not be able to get it. Next? Who knows? But isn't that why you're here and asking?

I've no pension and swapped what one(s) I had for a small annuity. But - and this is a big but - I've always contracted by picking up roles through advertising or agencies and never taken on a major project as you have done. Even if it didn't work out, it denotes that you have belief in what you do and you're confident and prepared to work to achieve what you want. With that attitude (and presumably skills) it sounds to me like you'll always be able to pick up the odd contract here and there and if the Mrs works then you will never be homeless or starve.

I'd live as close as I could to London (It's the greatest place in the world) and expect to get enough work to live on. Not sure you can ask for more really.

[fullyautomatix]

+1. I'm over 50 and I'm managing to get gigs without any trouble. Don't write yourself off just because you think other people will - clients want somebody who can do the job, and don't really give a damn about age in my experience.

I reckon age prejudice is something shown in recruitment of permies; when it comes to contractors, age confers a certain gravitas. More to the point, your decrepitude won't affect their private health scheme premiums, so they really don't care how old you are if you can do the job at the right rate

Blimey! I always had you down as a bloke in the twenties !

[socialworker]

[QUOTE=flipFlop;1942386]We all wish we are "always offered extensions", just like you you clever boy.[/QUOTEa]

No need for the sarcasm. Im in a different field to IT and just happen to be lucky that that my special area happens to be in demand. The point was, age need not be a bar to contracting. Sorry if I touched a nerve.

[adam42]

Jobserve shows Edinburgh has a lot more ads than Leeds but thanks for the warning about the Edinburgh locations - I assume you mean it can be a big hike to get to the business from the railway station?

Many ads on JS are fake. I've lived and worked in Scotland and the contracting market there is nothing compared to even Manchester, a black hole for contractors.

Yes I am aware. I have used jobserve heavily. I have a good idea for London on the ratios of job ads -> jobs relevant -> calls from agents -> submission to clients -> interviews.

I assume the same ratios would apply in Edinburgh too - or are the recruitment consultants there a particularly untruthful lot?

[adam42]

Unless you live in a very poor part of London with no green space within walking distance it doesn't matter.

Your kids want both you and your partner around.

Choose the option where both you and your partner are there everyday to talk to them after school, one of you can take them to school while the other can pick them up, and you aren't too knackered to do interesting things with them on weekends.

In other words choose cities or large towns where you are unlikely to need to do long commutes.....

Also quit worrying and do it.

Thanks for straight-up advice! But I am allowed to worry about it until Tuesday afternoon and then the recruitment consultants will turn nasty. Actually I am closer to an answer now, partly thanks to your advice. My personal preference is to go for the remote village with railway station on the coast, and that was colouring my judgement quite strongly. As you can imagine though there are more factors involved than I have gone into here. Suffice it to say unless I get an undeniably positive decision from my partner in favour of moving out of London then it's not going to happen, even if that would be undeniably the best option for the kids.

BTW growing up in London does have one or two advantages. Apart from getting around on your own steam by public transport you can learn enough of a random language which years later means you can grass up Indian nationals who lie to bosses.

The urban vs rural upbringing debate is a big one online and definitely not settled, as you point out.

I would never grass someone up as a matter of principle! How dare you!

[adam42]

I reckon working until you are 70 may be a challenge. It depends on your skills and experience obviously but you may face more discrimination as you get into your 60s unless you are more of an interim management type perhaps.

It depends on:
1. How old you look. There are some 60 and 70 year olds around who look in their late 40s and in their 50s. Granted a lot are cycling and running fanatics and also have good genes.
2. Your attitude and how you interact with people younger than you.

Plus no-one is saying he will stay in IT.......

Actually I'm pretty good on the age front. A lot of people claim to be surprised when I say how old I am. Maybe I'm just easily flattered though. And I am hopeless at telling people's ages myself so I naturally just treat everyone as if they were my own age. Often leads to unexpected results with my kids though

I'm definitely not planning on working until I'm 70, but I guess I'd prefer to be coding still than to be that handyman at B&Q. I mentioned being close to 50 and expecting to work for 20 more years so I guess that is where you got 70, but knock off a couple of years from 50 and expect the retirement age to rise to 67 and you almost have 20 years.

Reading other messages on the forum though I now realise when I retire will be totally down to me, or better said, having enough to retire on.

I will be staying in IT for at least 5 years and most likely more. The only option is if my business work rises like a phoenix from the ashes but that depends heavily on finding the time to commit to it and the extra money to pay a programmer to help. So I could easily stay in IT up to retirement. I haven't done the pensions / annuities / savings calculations yet to work out when that might be.

[stek]

Jobserve shows Edinburgh has a lot more ads than Leeds but thanks for the warning about the Edinburgh locations - I assume you mean it can be a big hike to get to the business from the railway station?

Many ads on JS are fake. I've lived and worked in Scotland and the contracting market there is nothing compared to even Manchester, a black hole for contractors.

[adam42]

The problem with Northumberland is that you really only have Newcastle and Edinburgh to commute and many Edinburgh options are a nightmare for a daily commute. Also neither market is large.

Personally I would stay South of the Tyne as that opens Leeds up as an option which provides a lot of additional options..

Jobserve shows Edinburgh has a lot more ads than Leeds but thanks for the warning about the Edinburgh locations - I assume you mean it can be a big hike to get to the business from the railway station?

[SueEllen]

I reckon working until you are 70 may be a challenge. It depends on your skills and experience obviously but you may face more discrimination as you get into your 60s unless you are more of an interim management type perhaps.

It depends on:
1. How old you look. There are some 60 and 70 year olds around who look in their late 40s and in their 50s. Granted a lot are cycling and running fanatics and also have good genes.
2. Your attitude and how you interact with people younger than you.

Plus no-one is saying he will stay in IT.......