Agency contract with client shows Charge Rate higher

[sunflower]

Don't go on site unless you have written terms. Most contracts say that you accept the terms by signing or by physically starting the work for the end client.

Don't be pushed by an agent into starting without one. It's their responsibility to get written terms to you both for all parties involved. There are some agencies who threaten to withdraw contract offers unless you accept without full written terms and äctually do so. Far too aggressive. You wonder then what they are trying to hide...

Getting the contract is not only for your peace of mind as a business.
Some end clients demand that you have liability insurance up to X and put several other conditions into contracts. You need to make sure you have those as well.

Go for a professional review and pay that bit extra for PCG Plus membership. The legal helpline is really worth it.

[TheFaQQer]

A contract should be signed before you start so all parties know where they stand. If you turn up and an implied contract signed it can all go very wrong when you come to rely on something in the contract. You get in to a 'he says this she says that' and it ends up in a big mess.

In this case, it's fairly simple - if the agency have sent you a copy of the contract, and you start work before agreeing any changes, then you have accepted the contract through your actions (Brogden v Metropolitan Railway Company). There wouldn't be a "he said, she said" argument - the closest you could get would be:

Contractor: I thought you said this
Agency: No, it's not in the contract that way, is it?
Contractor: No, but I thought I hadn't accepted it
Agency: You had, through your actions.

There isn't any reason for you to start without a contract. Once they have offered you a contract you can easily delay the start of the gig while you get it checked. They have invested so much time they won't bin you just because you want to delay it by a couple of days. This 'I had to start on Monday' is rubbish and just the contractor running his business badly.

I agree.

If you want to get the contract reviewed and make changes, then it needs to be done before you accept it. Doing it afterwards "because I was in a hurry" is a poor excuse and you deserve what you get.

[northernladuk]

If you start work, then you will be deemed to have accepted the last contract on the table, whether you have physically signed the paperwork or not.

There is plenty of precedent which indicates that a contract can be accepted without physically signing anything (or even verbally accepting it).

^ This.

A contract should be signed before you start so all parties know where they stand. If you turn up and an implied contract signed it can all go very wrong when you come to rely on something in the contract. You get in to a 'he says this she says that' and it ends up in a big mess. There isn't any reason for you to start without a contract. Once they have offered you a contract you can easily delay the start of the gig while you get it checked. They have invested so much time they won't bin you just because you want to delay it by a couple of days. This 'I had to start on Monday' is rubbish and just the contractor running his business badly.

[TheFaQQer]

Are you allowed to start a contract without signing it and then signing it a week after you start?

I thought the contract always had to be signed before you even start the role at the client site.

If you start work, then you will be deemed to have accepted the last contract on the table, whether you have physically signed the paperwork or not.

There is plenty of precedent which indicates that a contract can be accepted without physically signing anything (or even verbally accepting it).

[Manz]

option2: start a contract on monday, do not sign document, then later monday evening or tuesday morning tell agency if they not add atleast 6 or 7 % more then I will not be continue.

Are you allowed to start a contract without signing it and then signing it a week after you start?

I thought the contract always had to be signed before you even start the role at the client site.

[TheFaQQer]

A. it this difference ABC-ZYX =11% the only commission agency get from the client

Probably.

or
B. Agency get separate commission PLUS money lying to contractor by pay less ((i.e 11%).

Possibly - you'd have to ask the agency and / or the client if you are really desperate to find out.

option1: do not go monday, call monday afternoon and ask for more as now i am aware actual figure client is paying.

option2: start a contract on monday, do not sign document, then later monday evening or tuesday morning tell agency if they not add atleast 6 or 7 % more then I will not be continue.

option3: just forget and start the contract, sign the contract sometime.

Option 1 or 3 are your only valid options here.

If you take option 2, then make sure you understand clearly the terms under which you can terminate your contract. Also, make sure you know what the implications of taking this action will have with the client and the agency.

[Brian Potter]

Yes, but I don't have much time to wait. the as qdos questionnaire is about work practices which I could not answer as I have not started the work.
But from pcg checklist contract is IR35 friendly

Err...yes you do, if the client wants you then they won't have a problem waiting a few days whilst you complete due diligence. Do you think the client signed up with the agency WITHOUT due diligence? No. You're a business, not an employee nor a temp so do not allow the agency to push you into starting a role without getting your ducks in a row.

Working practices will be in the contract, hours of work and that sh1te. Going on-site is as good as accepting the contract so don't expect the agent to play ball when you find the contract is not IR35 safe.

[replyami]

You agreed to the rate, right?
So what's the problem?

Yes, I have agreed - So I guess it will be better to start then wait/negotiate.

Your post is a little confusing. Are you calculating the % correctly?
If, for example, you are being paid £80 and the agency is charging £100, then the agency margin is 20%, not 25%.
i.e. the margin is the calculated on the total charged, not as a % of what you get paid.

Sorry for confusion:
here is the actual figures(not sure if i am allowed to inform rate in this forum)

My contract says £333 Standard fee per day,
Another copy of similar document (mistakenly attached in my email) says £370 Charge Rate except this is a contract between client and the agency, so difference £37 will be 10% then?

many contractors work for the client through same agency
Hence I was under impression that
A. Agency informs client that £370 will be paid to the contractor.
B. Agency will get specific percentage over that rate(could be 15-20%?).

So I wanted to clarify if Agency gets only part A i.e 11%
or
it gets part A(11%) + part B

11% is the agency's cut, that's how they make their money and it's normal.
Your contract is still under review by Qdos but you're going to start on Monday? What's the point getting it reviewed? You should not start until the contract is reviewed and you're satisfied that it's ir35 safe.

Yes, but I don't have much time to wait. the as qdos questionnaire is about work practices which I could not answer as I have not started the work.
But from pcg checklist contract is IR35 friendly

[Brian Potter]

11% is the agency's cut, that's how they make their money and it's normal.

Your contract is still under review by Qdos but you're going to start on Monday? What's the point getting it reviewed? You should not start until the contract is reviewed and you're satisfied that it's ir35 safe.

[mudskipper]

Your post is a little confusing. Are you calculating the % correctly?

If, for example, you are being paid £80 and the agency is charging £100, then the agency margin is 20%, not 25%.

i.e. the margin is the calculated on the total charged, not as a % of what you get paid.

[SpontaneousOrder]

You agreed to the rate, right?
So what's the problem?

[replyami]

Hi fellow contractors,

I got my first IT contract, agency told me all stories to agree to lesser that initially put forward, which as a newbie I agreed by email, no document signed yet as I am still verifying my contract through QDOS related to IR35

Agency has asked me to start my contract on Monday 31st march and also to sign and return the contract document asap.

I am not very happy with the rate as I was persuaded by the agency to agree to less that I was put forward.

Now a recent email attachment mistakenly sent to me shows the "contract between client and agency", which shows charge rate which is 11% more than that is being paid to me.

Also I had some doubts with terms, hence agency agreed me to allow to speak to end client to clarify , client who mistakenly revailed me the rate(11% higher).

The contract between client and agency shows as below
Service Fee Charge Rate £ABC.00 per day

the contract between me and agency shows as below
Service Fee STANDARD FEE £XYZ.00 per day

XYZ.00 is 11% less that ABC.00

Question:
A. it this difference ABC-ZYX =11% the only commission agency get from the client
or
B. Agency get separate commission PLUS money lying to contractor by pay less ((i.e 11%).

if B is true , then now I am aware of that agency is lying me and have a proof.

I am about to start contract Monday which is not signed, do I still have opportunity to negotiate and ask more more.
Agency may convenience me that this is the only commission they get and they will not work for less that that blah blah .

so please advice what do I do,
option1: do not go monday, call monday afternoon and ask for more as now i am aware actual figure client is paying.

option2: start a contract on monday, do not sign document, then later monday evening or tuesday morning tell agency if they not add atleast 6 or 7 % more then I will not be continue.

option3: just forget and start the contract, sign the contract sometime.


please help asap

regards
ami