Reply to: Working extra hours / days

[riffpie]

we have started ignoring local candinates, ones that come Monday to Friday work longer hours

What are they doing? Sewing mailbags or something? I'm not convinced working longer hours does what you think it does.

[DirtyDog]

No one has refused an extension yet !!! perhaps its your old school attitude to contracting, you need to get with the times man.

Contractors that work within 1 to 2 hours commute always have to go home by 6pm, ones with hotels or flats can work later earning cash to go home early on a Friday and spend it

If I was working away from home, and the client effectively said that I could either stop work and go sit in my hotel, or stay there and charge for sitting around in the office, I'm sure I could find a way to stretch out the day somehow.

If you are paying by the professional working day and are expecting a long day every day, then that's a different matter, but paying grunts to sit around by the hour I have no issue with.

[Ticktock]

Yes all overtime paid, No one takes the Pi$$, projects are delevered on time on Budget, people work without whinging when required, contractors can go home on a thursday if tasks are complete. Contractors can have days off when they say as long as its outwith the times ive communicated to them before they start (go live's etc) - i dont think its to bad

So, basically you employ a load of permies at a vastly increased cost to the business?

[tarbera]

lol

Can imagine the contractors at taberas place thinking lets drag this out for 10 hours a day cos I might as well and I can rinse this client for some wonga, only going to sit in hotel on my tod so might as well stay here surfing the web.

Maybe they're not the dull ones after all.

Yes all overtime paid, No one takes the Pi$$, projects are delevered on time on Budget, people work without whinging when required, contractors can go home on a thursday if tasks are complete. Contractors can have days off when they say as long as its outwith the times ive communicated to them before they start (go live's etc) - i dont think its to bad

[psychocandy]

You pay your contractors by the hour? So basically you promote slow working and the drawing out of a day, just to earn a little more cash?
Most businesses realise they're better off trying to get people to work as efficiently as possible, not to just turn up and sit at a desk for as long as possible.

Please let us all know where you work, so we can avoid it.

Can imagine the contractors at taberas place thinking lets drag this out for 10 hours a day cos I might as well and I can rinse this client for some wonga, only going to sit in hotel on my tod so might as well stay here surfing the web.

Maybe they're not the dull ones after all.

[psychocandy]

No one has refused an extension yet !!! perhaps its your old school attitude to contracting, you need to get with the times man.

Contractors that work within 1 to 2 hours commute always have to go home by 6pm, ones with hotels or flats can work later earning cash to go home early on a Friday and spend it

Depends if you pay them for the extra hours or not....

[psychocandy]

we have started ignoring local candinates, ones that come Monday to Friday can't make an excuse that they've got a family to go to so we take the piss

FTFY. Remind me never to bother....

[Ticktock]

No one has refused an extension yet !!! perhaps its your old school attitude to contracting, you need to get with the times man.

Contractors that work within 1 to 2 hours commute always have to go home by 6pm, ones with hotels or flats can work later earning cash to go home early on a Friday and spend it

You pay your contractors by the hour? So basically you promote slow working and the drawing out of a day, just to earn a little more cash?
Most businesses realise they're better off trying to get people to work as efficiently as possible, not to just turn up and sit at a desk for as long as possible.

Please let us all know where you work, so we can avoid it.

[tarbera]

Funny

Jesus, you don't half talk some crap. I would hate to work there if even the slightest thing you say is actually in effect there.

No one has refused an extension yet !!! perhaps its your old school attitude to contracting, you need to get with the times man.

Contractors that work within 1 to 2 hours commute always have to go home by 6pm, ones with hotels or flats can work later earning cash to go home early on a Friday and spend it

[northernladuk]

we have started ignoring local candinates, ones that come Monday to Friday work longer hours

Jesus, you don't half talk some crap. I would hate to work there if even the slightest thing you say is actually in effect there.

[tarbera]

thats why

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

we have started ignoring local candinates, ones that come Monday to Friday work longer hours

[someltd]

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

This is exactly the issue - as a sensible/professional 9-10 hours when things are against the wall or a major fault, on rare occasions is fine, but it's where you draw the line. Once you start down the (I think) slippery path of showing you are happy to work more hours you become known for working 9-10 hour days and when you do a 9-5.30 one day, people have the perception that you've finished early. Not a great image, when you've been working your ass off for weeks doing 9-10 hour days. Like wise, working exactly per contract hours is not surely the way to portray your business as one your client wishes to engage with again.

As you say psycho - it's not just a financial consideration.

The upshot here seems to be that there is a general opinion that some occasional hours are fine, but it should not become the norm, and you never work additional days without billing. I'm happy to work along those lines, and where required be flexible with my time, but not my invoicing.

btw - nice to see that this thread has been really informative and kept on track - I've read a few where they degenerate into an IR35 bashing....

[psychocandy]

As I said, don't do any weekend work for free. If you are on a daily rate then Saturdays and Sundays are days just like any others. I would also be more inclined to keep to 7.5-8 hour days at the weekend than the rest of the week.

Having said that, I don't like clock watchers and tend to agree with Tarbera that someone sticking exactly to their contracted hours wouldn't be renewed. For a professional working day I would say between 8-9 hours is reasonable.

All in all, it depends what you are selling yourself as. Are you an expert in your field with a desire to deliver something and get paid accordingly? Or are you just a bum on a seat, paid less and more reasonably expecting to work nearer to your contracted hours?

Disagree. Not long term. 7.5-8 on average is fine.

Over a month, based on 9 hours you're working 20 hours extra. Thats 20 hours that could be spent with family etc.

[someltd]

All in all, it depends what you are selling yourself as. Are you an expert in your field with a desire to deliver something and get paid accordingly? Or are you just a bum on a seat, paid less and more reasonably expecting to work nearer to your contracted hours?

In this contract I appear to be a bum on a seat paid more (the day rate appears to be above what I'd expect for the type of work), that said, I'd not do the contract for less as I have bills to pay etc, but as has been said - 9 hour/day is no issue to me, I live local so no travelling. 10-12 hour days regularly and expected weekends was my concern, not only do I not want to do it for free, it would have a significant impact on my family life, even more so when coupled with the possibility of weekend work.

In any of my previous permie jobs, I'd not even be having this discussion because it would be a very rare occasion and my efforts would be appreciated by my manager, if not always financially rewarded. In this contract though, from what I can gather, it is the norm for most permies to work very extended hours, and if the permies can manage to do a 7.5/8 hour day they consider that to be an early finish, which leads me to wonder if the same and more might be expected from me given my (I assume) significantly higher financial remuneration compared to the permies.

You guys have given me the confidence to know that I'm not being unreasonable by expecting to be paid for working significantly more than my contract (weekends). I hope the issue doesn't arise, but if it does, I am now confident of what I will and won't say.

[BigRed]

Ok, I'll bite. For most of my long career (mostly permanent) I've worked a 35hr week. One job was 37.5hrs. Only one place has expected regular long hours of their permanent staff and I left fairly quickly because they general attitude stank. As a contractor I have reluctantly accepted that 40hrs seems to be expected as part of this 'professional day'. To me, a professional day means some flexibility on start times and on hours worked on a given day. An average of 9hrs a day plus travel and the time spent running my business is unacceptable unless it is agreed up front.

A typical contractor will like to start late on a Monday, finish early on a Friday, so 6 hrs each for those days then 3x8.5 for the remainder of the week. Anyone looking for more than that is looking for bums on seats in my opinion, not the reverse.

I worked with a group of Septics once, put the hours in and don't take holidays was their ethic, of course they spent a lot of time round the watercooler instead of getting their head down and doing anything, pretty good at meetings and crisis calls as well, it was like the PM ethic had spread through the workforce.