Reply to: Agency not paying invoice

[Boney M]

Thanks for the correction. That's a recent development, since August, and not an unreasonable one IMHO. But if it helps to bring about a rapid resolution of the dispute then it's money well spent.

Cheaper to do it via MCOL than a tribunal now

[Contreras]

It costs £160 up front, and then £230 due at the hearing.

Thanks for the correction. That's a recent development, since August, and not an unreasonable one IMHO. But if it helps to bring about a rapid resolution of the dispute then it's money well spent.

[DirtyDog]

Despite the contractual terms it would still make sense to initiate a claim through an employment tribunal IMHO.

It costs nothing and is very straight forward to do online without needing a solicitor.

It costs £160 up front, and then £230 due at the hearing.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Hmmm. Hypothetically speaking, what are the contractor's options in the event that there is a legitimate debt being unpaid and and an umbrella company which refuses to take action against the agency?

The debt is to the umbrella company who in turn have a debt to the contractor - if there is legitimate liability then the umbrella company should pursue the agency

[Contreras]

this is one of the biggest problems with using an umbrella, you cannot fight if they dont want to.

many umbrellas contract their contractors for only minimum wage per hour, and all other payments are "bonus" if and only if the end client and agency pays their invoice. so even if you took the umbrella to tribunal or court you would likely only get minimum wages per hour. since contract between umbrella and agency, and between agency and end client, is little to do with you (in law) you cannot really push those fights.

Despite the contractual terms it would still make sense to initiate a claim through an employment tribunal IMHO.

It costs nothing and is very straight forward to do online without needing a solicitor. The umbrella must respond within a certain period or it goes to default judgement. You can still be negotiating during this period and right up to the hearing date, but the umbrella have more incentive to get it sorted - not least for the time and effort involved of attending a tribunal, but there's also no guarantee a Judge would uphold the contract totally in their favour.

[northernladuk]

Hmmm. Hypothetically speaking, what are the contractor's options in the event that there is a legitimate debt being unpaid and and an umbrella company which refuses to take action against the agency?

I haven't read it all but I think this article covers that situation.

Contractors' Questions: Is my umbrella in breach of contract? :: Contractor UK

[Wanderer]

Hmmm. Hypothetically speaking, what are the contractor's options in the event that there is a legitimate debt being unpaid and and an umbrella company which refuses to take action against the agency?

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

I'd ping Lisa an email / PM and see what she advises.

Thanks DD - OP has PM'd me so I will respond directly. This is a little more complicated than it first may seem; I have spoken to the account manager in question and we are still corresponding with the agency who are also still in discussion with the client. We will always work with agencies to ensure that our employees are fully paid for the work that they do.

[DirtyDog]

so if you did a bad job, why should they pay you.?

Because that's what the law says.

If you aren't opted out of the agency regulations, then you get paid for the work that you do. If the client isn't happy with the work that you did, then they have to pursue other remedies rather than not paying.

They might sue you for all your fees back.

They might - at which point you have to either pay up or defend your position. Withholding payment illegally isn't the way to resolve the dispute, though - two wrongs don't make a right and all that.

[ap2013]

It has nothing to do with a bad job, it's not based on anything to do with performance (nor is anything in my contract).

[tarbera]

Bad terms

so if you did a bad job, why should they pay you.? They might sue you for all your fees back.

[Old Greg]

Thanks for the advice guys.

This is what I was afraid of. ContractorUmbrella have been very good but after speaking to my account manager he has basically said there isn't much he can do which doesn't strike me with a great deal of confidence. He also mentioned the minimum wage aspect and to be honest I will be pretty p!ssed if it does go down that route. Obviously livid with the agency and the blatant disregard for contractual obligations, not really about the money but the principal of it all.

The truth is there isn't much he will do. He can presumably start legal action against the agency.

[DirtyDog]

Thanks for the advice guys.

This is what I was afraid of. ContractorUmbrella have been very good but after speaking to my account manager he has basically said there isn't much he can do which doesn't strike me with a great deal of confidence. He also mentioned the minimum wage aspect and to be honest I will be pretty p!ssed if it does go down that route. Obviously livid with the agency and the blatant disregard for contractual obligations, not really about the money but the principal of it all.

I'd ping Lisa an email / PM and see what she advises.

[ap2013]

Thanks for the advice guys.

This is what I was afraid of. ContractorUmbrella have been very good but after speaking to my account manager he has basically said there isn't much he can do which doesn't strike me with a great deal of confidence. He also mentioned the minimum wage aspect and to be honest I will be pretty p!ssed if it does go down that route. Obviously livid with the agency and the blatant disregard for contractual obligations, not really about the money but the principal of it all.

[CoolCat]

You need to get the umbrella to chase the agency more - they are your employer, so you need to go through them.

Since you did not opt out of the agency regulations, then this is fairly straightforward, so I wouldn't bother with a solicitor (before Dominic Connor pipes in, Roger isn't a solicitor) or similar legal expert. You did the work. You can prove that you did the hours you are invoicing for. Therefore, you are entitled to be paid for those days - if the agency doesn't get paid, then that's their problem.

Get the umbrella to chase for payment, and failing that you'll have to file a small claims court notice. Read the information on payontime.co.uk


Granted it's been a while since I worked through them, and the guy I used to deal with has since left, but I've always found them to be pretty professional and prompt payers. Not had much contact with them for a while, though.

this is one of the biggest problems with using an umbrella, you cannot fight if they dont want to.

many umbrellas contract their contractors for only minimum wage per hour, and all other payments are "bonus" if and only if the end client and agency pays their invoice. so even if you took the umbrella to tribunal or court you would likely only get minimum wages per hour. since contract between umbrella and agency, and between agency and end client, is little to do with you (in law) you cannot really push those fights.

i worked for a big consultancy, who fell out with one of their contractors, i sat next to the commercial director as he negotiated with the umbrella... the opening negotation stance from the umbrella was "just give us 50% of amount invoiced and we will forget it"... so I dont have much faith in umbrellas pushing for payment.