Reply to: contractor 'pulled off site' due to admin failure

[DirtyDog]

Quite. Does anyone know of a specialist service that does this? I generally seem to have a contract pushed upon me to sign so i can get on site. This clearly is a bad idea moving forward. Whats a good strategy for getting what you want?
[and yes i also fell foul of opting out]

Bauer & Cotterrill
Qdos Consulting

Do a search - there are others

[doughboy]

Unlikely to be enforceable.

You know you should read your contracts and then get them reviewed before you sign them.....

Quite. Does anyone know of a specialist service that does this? I generally seem to have a contract pushed upon me to sign so i can get on site. This clearly is a bad idea moving forward. Whats a good strategy for getting what you want?
[and yes i also fell foul of opting out]

[SueEllen]

Thanks everyone- I knew the contract was bad when i sighed it. Having re read it i've been stitched up like a kipper- contract also has a wait for it .....1 year çooling off period'!
Thanks for the advice. I wont make that mistake again

Unlikely to be enforceable.

You know you should read your contracts and then get them reviewed before you sign them.....

[doughboy]

The original contract has ended? What is the 1 year clause?

Its a 'you can not work for this client, or the clients client until 12 months has passed from the end of your contract'...cooling off period my arse

[psychocandy]

It's down to expectation and needs in a client supplier relationship unfortunately. It will always be stacked as the client needs his work doing. Also need to think about who has used the 'not available'. Realistically both parties use it a lot. Client uses it at bank hols and xmas periods as well as at the end of the contract. You are ready to bill over xmas for example but the client doesn't need you as it is shut down. Contractors are not available to the client everytime they want some holiday. Everything seems to work nicely then. It just gets messy if a contractor says he is not available for notice period because the client has an expectation of work to be finished.

It's just about the situation really.

This is true. But usually I find that for holidays most clients like to be informed/asked at least.

Knew of a guy who went through some fairly heavy family stuff. Serious illness etc. Tried to work with the client but basically could not fulfill his notice period. Did try to compromise but client stamped his feet so in the end he just said sod you, packed up his stuff, left the office, never to return. Of course, he had all sorts of hassle off both agency/client then (of course, nothing ever came of it)....

[Scruff]

unfortunately its in the original contract- the issue is with the extension to that contract

The original contract has ended? What is the 1 year clause?

[northernladuk]

For instance, client can say sorry, forget the notice period not interested, but don't come in there's no work and that's that. How many people has that happened to? Loads and loads.
Likewise, how many contractors have gone to the client and said, sorry, won't be in next week, sod the notice period, I just aint interested. There'd be a riot. Just saying like.

It's down to expectation and needs in a client supplier relationship unfortunately. It will always be stacked as the client needs his work doing. Also need to think about who has used the 'not available'. Realistically both parties use it a lot. Client uses it at bank hols and xmas periods as well as at the end of the contract. You are ready to bill over xmas for example but the client doesn't need you as it is shut down. Contractors are not available to the client everytime they want some holiday. Everything seems to work nicely then. It just gets messy if a contractor says he is not available for notice period because the client has an expectation of work to be finished.

It's just about the situation really.

[psychocandy]

What are the chances of them sorting this out? Admin failures tend to be a pain in the arse but rarely terminal. If work has been done that is valued to the client and someone has cocked up with the budget this is nearly always sorted from what I can see.

Where Wanderer may have a point about chasing notice periods not worked (I don't agree but could be worth a chase) but in this case there isn't even a contract or SoW in place with the client to pay the agent. It is highly likely the agent has pulled you because he isn't getting paid either. You would be pushed to prove loss if the agent never had the money either and the chain would have to go to the client. You will have a push an agent very hard to sue for money even he didn't get. I think this is slightly more complicated than a simple honour notice period payments.

Devil is in the details of what the admin failure is but if it is about client and agent arguing about payment trying to sue the agent for anything will surely fail.

WHS. I've seen this before where someone suddenly realises the contracts etc are not in place. Contractors then not appearing on site then tends to focus attention on getting it sorted quickly.

As for the no work = no pay thing this is all well and good. However, another example how I feel it all works to the clients advantage sometimes.

For instance, client can say sorry, forget the notice period not interested, but don't come in there's no work and that's that. How many people has that happened to? Loads and loads.
Likewise, how many contractors have gone to the client and said, sorry, won't be in next week, sod the notice period, I just aint interested. There'd be a riot. Just saying like.

[doughboy]

What does the "1 year cooling off period" refer to? Its not likely to be binding on you, since the actual upper contract doesn't appear to be enforceable?

unfortunately its in the original contract- the issue is with the extension to that contract

[Scruff]

What does the "1 year cooling off period" refer to? Its not likely to be binding on you, since the actual upper contract doesn't appear to be enforceable?

[doughboy]

Thanks everyone- I knew the contract was bad when i sighed it. Having re read it i've been stitched up like a kipper- contract also has a wait for it .....1 year çooling off period'!
Thanks for the advice. I wont make that mistake again

[northernladuk]

What are the chances of them sorting this out? Admin failures tend to be a pain in the arse but rarely terminal. If work has been done that is valued to the client and someone has cocked up with the budget this is nearly always sorted from what I can see.

Where Wanderer may have a point about chasing notice periods not worked (I don't agree but could be worth a chase) but in this case there isn't even a contract or SoW in place with the client to pay the agent. It is highly likely the agent has pulled you because he isn't getting paid either. You would be pushed to prove loss if the agent never had the money either and the chain would have to go to the client. You will have a push an agent very hard to sue for money even he didn't get. I think this is slightly more complicated than a simple honour notice period payments.

Devil is in the details of what the admin failure is but if it is about client and agent arguing about payment trying to sue the agent for anything will surely fail.

[Wanderer]

the contract does state completed time sheets, which as we all know is a formality.

So, did you sign the opt out they were so anxious for you to sign?

In any case, do what SueEllen says:

1. Invoice the agency immediately for your 4 weeks, chase if they don't pay up and be prepared to take them to court. (Do not delay doing this.)
2. Search for another role immediately.


If you invoice then then there is some chance you will get paid. If you don't invoice them then there is NO chance you will get paid.

What i don't understand is how an agency can stop you working and generating an income at the drop of a hat- mid [supposed contract] Personally I think both sides should honour it..its not my fault i have not been allowed to work as i have been available and at their disposal.

Lots of people here think the notice period means nothing because it's invalidated by some other clause in the (hypothetical) contract. If it's a month's money then I'd be inclined to bill for it and take it to court to see what the judge says. Who knows, the agency may even settle out of court and at least you will get something.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out...

[SueEllen]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, wasn't sure id get any replies.
Ive been consulting with this client for 6 months already this relates to an extension. As has been pointed out the contract does state completed time sheets, which as we all know is a formality.

You agreed to this - remember contracts are negotiable - and if you opted-out properly that's what you are likely stuck with.

What i don't understand is how an agency can stop you working and generating an income at the drop of a hat- mid [supposed contract] Personally I think both sides should honour it..its not my fault i have not been allowed to work as i have been available and at their disposal.

The agency don't have an agreement with the client therefore you can't work, and the client can't have you on-site or doing work for them off-site for them as you are provided by the agency. It's not actually hard to get your head around.

As a side issue, i regularly work away from the client site and ive never been told not to work just not to go onsite- not to work was only ever implied [due to technically no contract being in place] . Pay for the period in question has been invoiced and now overdue- mainly because the end client can not enter me into their timesheet system as im technically not under contract...catch 22.

It's up to you to chase remember your contract is with the agency not the client.

Check whether you have opted-out properly - the information is on this site and in the forums all you have to do is search for it.

Ive ran my own businesses for 20 yrs and i'm not impressed.

You may have ran your own business but when employment businesses are involved it's not as straight forward.

[doughboy]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, wasn't sure id get any replies.
Ive been consulting with this client for 6 months already this relates to an extension. As has been pointed out the contract does state completed time sheets, which as we all know is a formality.

What i don't understand is how an agency can stop you working and generating an income at the drop of a hat- mid [supposed contract] Personally I think both sides should honour it..its not my fault i have not been allowed to work as i have been available and at their disposal.

As a side issue, i regularly work away from the client site and ive never been told not to work just not to go onsite- not to work was only ever implied [due to technically no contract being in place] . Pay for the period in question has been invoiced and now overdue- mainly because the end client can not enter me into their timesheet system as im technically not under contract...catch 22.

Ive ran my own businesses for 20 yrs and i'm not impressed.