Reply to: Negotiate rate increase with agency or client?

[kal]

The agent was testing you to see if you would break.

+1 A mate of mine had a similar situation, 3 renewals in and another one coming up he asked the agent to reduce his margin so he could get a £20 a day increase, usual sob story about how the agency were barely breaking even on their 15% cut (he was looking for them to reduce it to 10%), needless to say he didn't get it. Next renewal comes along and he's bagged a better role and knows he's leaving gives the pimp the ultimatum, lo and behold he gets his 5% increase! He mentioned that it was very satisfying to tell the agency to go jump, they are not on the PSL anymore so didn't get the opportunity to get someone else in to replace him either . He's now contracting direct and happy with the reduction in tulip not having to go through an agency brings.

[kingcook]

Forgot to update the thread. The agent just emailed me one day and said the rate increase was approved. I didn't have to meet with the client after all, so don't know what that was about.

The agent was testing you to see if you would break.

[Rabotnik]

Forgot to update the thread. The agent just emailed me one day and said the rate increase was approved. I didn't have to meet with the client after all, so don't know what that was about.

[CheeseSlice]

I have always negotiated my increase direct with current clientco. Even collaborated to squeeze the pimp's rate down to benefit my rate.

Nice to know this works sometimes

[kal]

Its the principle, call the pimps bluff, he will not want to lose 8 months worth of money for doing sweet FA, if you don't get it walk...

[BjornMorg]

I have always negotiated my increase direct with current clientco. Even collaborated to squeeze the pimp's rate down to benefit my rate.

[Wanderer]

I'd talk to the client and find out what they are paying the agency just to make sure the agency aren't shafting you. Then take it from there - the agent can drop their margin to ~5% on a long contract like that.

[Boney M]

So the OP is on £400 day rate. For the sake of an extra £40 a week for a 8 month extension I would not even bother to be honest. Nice long term gig, you are comfortable there, I wouldn't

On the flip side though, I totally agree that the pimp could forsake some of their line and why the **** they have gone to the client is beyond me. Had this happen to me once before and made me feel very uncomfortable. I dont see why the pimp couldn't have said, "We cannot take this out of our margin, we would love to blah blah blah. If you want I can approach the client on your behalf" rather than going direct. I think when pimps do this it put's you in a bit of a situation with the clientco and management. I want to choose whether I want to engage with them on that, not the pimp.

[Rabotnik]

At least we're talking concrete numbers now 392 vs 400 per day.
I don't know ask the client if you can do an extra day of work 4 times a year and it will round up.
I would seriously not waste anyone's time on principle.
Agents will do whatever is possible to get the highest margin possible and that include lies. You should consider it as part of contractor's life.
Agent's promised he'd increase the rate. He lied, if you walk away because of this, sure he'll take a hit but you'll take a bigger hit and it just doesn't make sense to educate people like that - even if he did 'learn' from his mistakes there are hundreds of others who will successfully try the same.
Enjoy your daily 392 - even in London you can have a decent lifestyle with that.

Hehe, I was trying to avoid too many specifics since I'm paranoid the agent will read the boards and clock it straight away

Yeah I was put forward at £400 then I got the job and later that evening he called and said there was a mixup and I'd have to take £387. I thought I would do it since it was only a 3 month "build a datawarehouse" thing, but then they had loads of other stuff going on so I extended twice. I thought it was only fair that I get a little bump closer to the rate we agreed and this was my last chance for the next 8 months.

[Rabotnik]

Lesson for next time - don't fall for the drop in rate because of an agent cock-up. Let the agent and the client work it out between themselves. Be prepared to walk because it wasn't your fault.

I know this doesn't help your current situation, but best never to be caught in it in the first place.

edit: whether you should talk to client about your rate depends on what terms you're on. Normally you're not supposed to, but you don't have to talk numbers if you're simply not happy with the situation. Personally I've not had any luck negotiating rate increase with clientcos, they're more often than not been pricing me into their future projects at my current rate, and any deviation would just screw things up. Best to just move onto another contract at the rate you want.

Cheers for the advice. I actually initially thought it was a con by the agent (since they are all lying scum ), but I ended up having some drinks after work with one of my interviewers, and he confirmed it was true. He thought the rate on the CV was all inclusive, and they'd just started using this agency after the agent took them to lunch with 2 of his "colleagues" (hot women) there to convince them to use the agency.

[yasockie]

At least we're talking concrete numbers now 392 vs 400 per day.
I don't know ask the client if you can do an extra day of work 4 times a year and it will round up.
I would seriously not waste anyone's time on principle.
Agents will do whatever is possible to get the highest margin possible and that include lies. You should consider it as part of contractor's life.
Agent's promised he'd increase the rate. He lied, if you walk away because of this, sure he'll take a hit but you'll take a bigger hit and it just doesn't make sense to educate people like that - even if he did 'learn' from his mistakes there are hundreds of others who will successfully try the same.
Enjoy your daily 392 - even in London you can have a decent lifestyle with that.

[Rabotnik]

The agency would like you to speak to the client so you need to go ahead. It would be different if the agency told you not to do that.

It's the agency who makes the call on this one.

I see, cheers, I've never made a rate rise before, this was just a special case since it's now stretching to 18 months at a reduced rate when initially it was only 3. I just wanted to check if any more experience people thought it was unusual to talk to clients about rate rises when it's actually the agent that pays the contractor's company.

[CheeseSlice]

No, I didn't tell the client my rate, after the interview the agent told me there'd been a mistake and the client thought the rate the agent put on my CV included their cut. It was the first time this agency had placed someone there, so that's why there was confusion about what the total cost would be.

My main point with starting the thread was whether I should be talking to my client about a rate increase. I thought as a proper business I just tell it to the agency and it's up to them to pay me and they can try negotiate with the client but it's nothing to do with me.

Lesson for next time - don't fall for the drop in rate because of an agent cock-up. Let the agent and the client work it out between themselves. Be prepared to walk because it wasn't your fault.

I know this doesn't help your current situation, but best never to be caught in it in the first place.

edit: whether you should talk to client about your rate depends on what terms you're on. Normally you're not supposed to, but you don't have to talk numbers if you're simply not happy with the situation. Personally I've not had any luck negotiating rate increase with clientcos, they're more often than not been pricing me into their future projects at my current rate, and any deviation would just screw things up. Best to just move onto another contract at the rate you want.

[Old Greg]

Like I said, it's a 2% increase on a rate which I lowered to start with, and it doesn't even get me back to the initially agreed upon rate (which was a screw up between the agent and client). But that's beside the point, isn't it unusual for the agent to point me at the client?

Yes. Apologies for the digression. I would politely advise the agency that these are your renewal terms and that if they do not suit you will be happy to facilitate a smooth handover. But back to the 8 quid... I would have asked for more because 8 sounds trivial. Who walks over 8 quid? Apart from you obviously

[BlasterBates]

The agency would like you to speak to the client so you might as well go ahead. It would be different if the agency told you not to do that.

It's the agency who makes the call on this one.