Provision of consultancy services in non-EU countries

[Old Greg]

Did you ever work in Cairo or Tunis? The poor there were money grabbing little shysters and the guys in the bank were almost exclusively workshy layabouts.

He was a poor bank worker.

[Moscow Mule]

Exactly but in the MEA it is very easy to be disrespectful without realising it. They tend to be a very proud and respectful lot. Giving tips should be done discreetly for example as they can be embarrassed that they need the tips to live on etc.

Also the poor know they are poor and live with it. They generally don't try and steal everything like they do here.

Did you ever work in Cairo or Tunis? The poor there were money grabbing little shysters and the guys in the bank were almost exclusively workshy layabouts.

[northernladuk]

Ta again. Why you would want to go somewhere and be disrespectful and learn nothing beats me.

Exactly but in the MEA it is very easy to be disrespectful without realising it. They tend to be a very proud and respectful lot. Giving tips should be done discreetly for example as they can be embarrassed that they need the tips to live on etc.

Also the poor know they are poor and live with it. They generally don't try and steal everything like they do here. We had a guy that made coffees in the office, kept it clean etc and was paid a couple of pounds from the petty cash despite laptops etc laying around everywhere. He was a bloody star, had my coffee order off by heart by day 2 and taught me the words for thank you, a cup of coffee etc in Arabic. He even invited me to his house for food over xmas which I was advised to turn down so I gave him a pretty generous tip which amounted to a couple of months wages and was told later he was a little unhappy about it. Instead of being generous it was seen as making a point he was poor. You live and learn.

[Old Greg]

Exactly this. I also worked there for a while. Salām brothers and sisters. If it is the UAE, local Emiratis are generally decent folk. Just respect the local customs.

Scratch the surface and this is a police state, so be very careful. Maybe take the time to connect with a local Brit who knows the lay of the land in terms of business contracts etc, even if you are just dropping in and out.

Ta again. Why you would want to go somewhere and be disrespectful and learn nothing beats me.

[donjuan75]

Dunno about finances but.....

Get familiar with the basics of their religion and culture. I worked out there for a number of months along side an American guy. He had absolutely no idea and didn't care a hoot about their culture. I found it very interesting and learnt a bit of Arabic and some basics about prayer times and some do's and do nots. They ended up by passing him completely and going straight to me much to his annoyance but watching his attitude it isn't hard to see why they hate the yanks.

Little things like remembering they need long breaks for prayer on Friday, don't walk in front of someone while they are praying etc. A quick 'Haraman' when they return from prayer earns a lot of respect which they value highly.

This is assuming you are working in a strongly Arabic culture. It may be very watered down in places like Dubai but being aware make a lot of difference.

Be aware their weekends are different to ours as well if you are looking at daily billing.

Which countries will you be working in out of interest?

Exactly this. I also worked there for a while. Salām brothers and sisters. If it is the UAE, local Emiratis are generally decent folk. Just respect the local customs.

Scratch the surface and this is a police state, so be very careful. Maybe take the time to connect with a local Brit who knows the lay of the land in terms of business contracts etc, even if you are just dropping in and out.

[TheFaQQer]

Get familiar with the basics of their religion and culture.

This is important and true of many countries.

I was nearly booted out of a pitch to some staunch Catholic customers in Glasgow because I suggested that we FTP the files

[northernladuk]

Thanks all. It's a massive semi-public client, so no worries about their ability to pay, just about doing business in ME. Anyone looked at export credit guarantee insurance (or whatever) before.

Pitch has been delayed but now scheduled. Fingers crossed.

Any other advice welcome. Am a bit nervous...

Dunno about finances but.....

Get familiar with the basics of their religion and culture. I worked out there for a number of months along side an American guy. He had absolutely no idea and didn't care a hoot about their culture. I found it very interesting and learnt a bit of Arabic and some basics about prayer times and some do's and do nots. They ended up by passing him completely and going straight to me much to his annoyance but watching his attitude it isn't hard to see why they hate the yanks.

Little things like remembering they need long breaks for prayer on Friday, don't walk in front of someone while they are praying etc. A quick 'Haraman' when they return from prayer earns a lot of respect which they value highly.

This is assuming you are working in a strongly Arabic culture. It may be very watered down in places like Dubai but being aware make a lot of difference.

Be aware their weekends are different to ours as well if you are looking at daily billing.

Which countries will you be working in out of interest?

[Old Greg]

Thanks all. It's a massive semi-public client, so no worries about their ability to pay, just about doing business in ME. Anyone looked at export credit guarantee insurance (or whatever) before.

Pitch has been delayed but now scheduled. Fingers crossed.

Any other advice welcome. Am a bit nervous...

[jamesbrown]

Yes, you can invoice through your UK Ltd. as normal. I charge a 2% currency fee on each invoice. The jurisdiction and governing law should be specified in the contract (ideally the UK, but you may struggle to agree that). In practice, though, the same difficulties will arise on settling debts that you might experience in the UK (i.e. often better to walk), so do any pre-checks you can. You can do international credit checks with Dun and Bradstreet, for example (you'll have to check which countries are covered). In terms of visiting the client site, just make sure you're not violating the terms of any visa w/r to working temporarily. Ordinarily, it's fine, but there may be conditions on the type of work you can do (e.g. "non-productive" work).

[Moscow Mule]

If its somebody dodgy (i.e. pretty much any company in the ME) then think about an escrow. Especially if you're delivering something you can't take back easily...

[Old Greg]

If the visits to the ME amount to just a few days a month, I doubt it's an issue. You are just there on business, after all, and invoice/pay tax in the UK.

The enforcement thing is tricky though ... since it's obviously not EU, you may find you need extra insurance to cover chasing non-payment. And there's the currency issue to consider as well (unless your client is offering to pay in GBP).

Thanks, buddy. Will add currency to things to thinks about.

[borderreiver]

If the visits to the ME amount to just a few days a month, I doubt it's an issue. You are just there on business, after all, and invoice/pay tax in the UK.

The enforcement thing is tricky though ... since it's obviously not EU, you may find you need extra insurance to cover chasing non-payment. And there's the currency issue to consider as well (unless your client is offering to pay in GBP).

[Old Greg]

I have a pitch next week for some consultancy work in the Middle East. I would be principally based in the UK with occasional travel to the client site - or that's my idea.

Anyone got any experience / advice around this? I'm assuming I can use my UK Ltd and contract directly and pay tax as normal in the UK. Or might this be wrong?

Am slightly worried about getting paid, not their ability to pay, but my ability to enforce payment. Is some kind of export credit guarantee relevant and advisable?

It will probably go nowhere but I want to start preparing myself. I've never worked overseas so it's all new to me.

The advice of the panel is welcome!

Cheers

OG