Reply to: Living in Switzerland Working in Germany

[Ignis Fatuus]

Here´s the link from the Swiss authorities. Basically in terms of the right to live and work it´s the same as in any other EU country.

Free Movement of Persons Switzerland ? EU/EFTA

Thanks.

[BlasterBates]

Here´s the link from the Swiss authorities. Basically in terms of the right to live and work it´s the same as in any other EU country.

Free Movement of Persons Switzerland ? EU/EFTA

Obviously it´a good idea to check with the local "Gemeinde" to see you can do that, if you were not previously resident to check that you can receive a residence permit.

[Ignis Fatuus]

It states that Swiss citizens can live and work in the EU without restriction and vice-versa.

It does say that. But I would not want to bet my future plans on the writer of that document being strictly accurate and in sync with our reading of the phrase live and work. Maybe you can live and work, but not just live in Switzerland without working there.

As I say, it does say so. But is it so?

[Ignis Fatuus]

No you pay tax in Germany, I´m afraid. Your main tax residence will still be Switzerland, but your German income is subject to German income tax. Your investments and so on will only be subject to Swiss tax.

I would go and see a German "Steuerberater" when you start work there.

I think you are going to have to bite the bullet because there aint no contracts in Switzerland.

No contracts?

banks, pharma, telecoms....

[BlasterBates]

No you pay tax in Germany, I´m afraid. Your main tax residence will still be Switzerland, but your German income is subject to German income tax. Your investments and so on will only be subject to Swiss tax.

I would go and see a German "Steuerberater" when you start work there.

I think you are going to have to bite the bullet because there aint no contracts in Switzerland.

[OBL25]

Swiss guy contracting in Munich

Long time since i have been on this Forum...anyway, im now a Swiss person with passport , kids etc and i live in Switzerland..i have just been offered a lucrative contract in Germany..so reading the above if i commuted up to Munich each week and stayed in a hotel during the week and commuted back to see my kids and girlfriend in Switzerland each weekend i would pay tax in Switzerland...So i would not have to pay any german taxes as all my health insurance and social security payments are paid in Switzerland...

I also Australian and Uk passports.

[BlasterBates]

This relates to EU citizens and Switzerland is not in the EU.

It states that Swiss citizens can live and work in the EU without restriction and vice-versa.

[Brussels Slumdog]

Non-EU nationals - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission
.

This relates to EU citizens and Switzerland is not in the EU.

[Brussels Slumdog]

But (here's the tricky bit) if you are NOT legally working in Switzerland, you do not necessarily have the right to live there just because you are an EU citizen.

I may be wrong about that but that is how I understand it. (FWIW the EU itself, or rather the EC at the time, was once like that: the principle was free movement of labour, without a job you didn't have freedom to stay)

This is my understanding of Swiss residency. The first step would be to apply for a swiss resident card without working in Switzerland. If you are as rich as Phil Collins then you can make a deal with the canton. You may be able to prove that you earn enough in Germany to support your family in Switzerland however the German and Swiss Tax authorities may have an agreement which prevents this.
There are various categories of Swiss residency, I think I had an E card. I also believe that only C Card holders and people earning over iCHFXXX are actually Swiss Tax resident
I worked for a year in Switzerland and did not have to fill in a Tax form.

[BlasterBates]

I´m pretty sure that you have freedom to live in Switzerland without restrictions, if you are an EU citizen. The rules were changed a few years ago.

Non-EU nationals - Employment, Social Affairs & Inclusion - European Commission

worth checking though.

However you may not necessarily be entitled to social welfare, but lets face it Germany is just a short trip, and you would have entitlements there.

[Ignis Fatuus]

This is quite different question. I would be living in Switzerland and working in Germany because I plan to settle in Switzerland. Now in UK, I dont need any residency permit as an EU citizen, but I would need that in Swiss? ...

In Switzerland, as an EU citizen you have the right to work for 90 days without a permit. After that you need an EU citizen's permit to work in Switzerland (virtually automatic).

As a legal worker (as described above) you have the right to live in Switzerland.

But (here's the tricky bit) if you are NOT legally working in Switzerland, you do not necessarily have the right to live there just because you are an EU citizen.

I may be wrong about that but that is how I understand it. (FWIW the EU itself, or rather the EC at the time, was once like that: the principle was free movement of labour, without a job you didn't have freedom to stay)

[BlasterBates]

Thanks for the information. What if I shift my family and they live there and I do the commute?

In my view you would be tax resident in Switzerland, that´s how the Swiss authorities would view it. You are basically tax resident where your family is, as long as you are returning regularly, and I think the German authorities would accept that as well. As I mentioned above that still means you pay tax on your contract earnings in Germany but you wouldn´t be subject to tax on earnings elsewhere.

So you will submit a tax return in Germany and explain that your family is in Switzerland and you travel back at the weekend, and you submit a tax return in Switzerland and include your German income with proof of tax paid in Germany, i.e. a letter from the German authorities that you pay your tax there and the "Steuerebescheid" i.e. the tax statement, when it arrives as you will probably not get it before you submit your tax return in Switzerland.

I

[martinluther]

Also:

Thanks for the information. What if I shift my family and they live there and I do the commute?

[darmstadt]

Also:

You cannot be a Swiss resident by just registering, like you would for example subscribe to a golf club but never go. This means that if you are granted a Swiss residence permit, you need to actually move to Switzerland and live there for good. If you cannot stay for 180 days a year or more, then you must make sure that you do not spend more time in any other specific country than you spend in Switzerland. That rules out residence permits given for people who spend a month a year in Switzerland.


Please note that Switzerland does not know the British distinction between resident and domiciled. Here in Switzerland, either you live in Switzerland and you are a taxpayer, or you are neither.

[martinluther]

You pay tax in Germany. You also declare your German earnings to the Swiss tax authority and proof of tax paid in Germany.

Thanks. Does that mean Swiss will not tax me again? Given that all Cantons charge you a tax for being resident, do they also offer tax credit paid in Germany and hence they would not tax me again.