Reply to: Irate Public sector client's manager sends e-mail rejecting Substitutions

[Rabotnik]

Not a school boy question just one from someone who hasn't been running a business for very long I would think. You are selling your skills (in the same way as Tesco sells horse burgers) and therefore it is up to you to decide what you think those skills are worth. There will be some clients who are prepared to pay your price and some who won't but you need to know your own worth.

I see, I expected an answer like that, but I thought it would be from NLUK (and with YANCOTBAC tagged on the end )

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

touché! Do you just tell any agent who asks you charge x/hour rather than a day rate? I always quote a day rate since the ads show the day rate.

Terribly schoolboy question I know.

Not a school boy question just one from someone who hasn't been running a business for very long I would think. You are selling your skills (in the same way as Tesco sells horse burgers) and therefore it is up to you to decide what you think those skills are worth. There will be some clients who are prepared to pay your price and some who won't but you need to know your own worth.

[Rabotnik]

Should get on an hourly rate then

touché! Do you just tell any agent who asks you charge x/hour rather than a day rate? I always quote a day rate since the ads show the day rate.

Terribly schoolboy question I know.

[Moscow Mule]

I don't think most contractors could get away with this. If you are hired at a day rate of 400pd, and you suddenly start charging 450/500 I think you would be quickly replaced.

That may be my inexperience talking though.

Should get on an hourly rate then

[Rabotnik]

No it isn't my company turned over 200k a few years ago just by making the client (totally unorganised and prone to last minute changes) pay for the time they wasted.

The idiots amongst you that think that time is free need a lesson from a prostitute or corporate lawyer...

I don't think most contractors could get away with this. If you are hired at a day rate of 400pd, and you suddenly start charging 450/500 I think you would be quickly replaced.

That may be my inexperience talking though.

[bobspud]

My apologies for the wording. I meant to say overtime as in extra days for free such as weekend. IMHO not billing for a day worked over the weekend is a permie thing to do and is different to working a few extra hours during the week.

No it isn't my company turned over 200k a few years ago just by making the client (totally unorganised and prone to last minute changes) pay for the time they wasted.

The idiots amongst you that think that time is free need a lesson from a prostitute or corporate lawyer...

[psychocandy]

Where I agree with the first paragraph I don't the second. For a start 'overtime' is a permie concept. If someone wishes to do more hours than their contract it does not make them the same type of person as the one in the first paragraph. One is a work ethic, the other is indicative of the situation we are in with so many people coming to contracting who don't understand what it is about. Not a good example.

My apologies for the wording. I meant to say overtime as in extra days for free such as weekend. IMHO not billing for a day worked over the weekend is a permie thing to do and is different to working a few extra hours during the week.

[GB9]

Is the agency Huxley?

RDF

[Andy Hallett]

Irate Public sector client's manager sends e-mail rejecting Substitutions

Would be interested to know whether the agency's contract with the Public Sector body allowed for a substitution? A lot of government bodies will use their own framework without reference to ROS. Agencies have to effectively have to act as a broker when it comes to terms and conditions, if there is a delta then it will ultimately be their liability. That said if this is the case it will ultimately prove that in effect there was no real ROS.

From memory the one occasion we had an IR35 cases reviewed the HMRC they asked for our contract with the end client, luckily it was back to backed.

[northernladuk]

Unfortunately, there are enough contractors who wont do this so client just gets one of those in. Not saying your not right but you cant win.

Same with contractors who work overtime for free. Plenty of those around too.

Where I agree with the first paragraph I don't the second. For a start 'overtime' is a permie concept. If someone wishes to do more hours than their contract it does not make them the same type of person as the one in the first paragraph. One is a work ethic, the other is indicative of the situation we are in with so many people coming to contracting who don't understand what it is about. Not a good example.

[kingcook]

Yeah, you are right.

Slightly different situation, but when I queried something with an agent the other day his response was "if you don't like it there are plenty of other people who will do it".

Is the agency Huxley?

[GB9]

Unfortunately, there are enough contractors who wont do this so client just gets one of those in. Not saying your not right but you cant win.

Same with contractors who work overtime for free. Plenty of those around too.

Yeah, you are right.

Slightly different situation, but when I queried something with an agent the other day his response was "if you don't like it there are plenty of other people who will do it".

[psychocandy]

And that's exactly what is needed. People who are prepared to work to what the contract says.

HMRC's default position is that we are employees, prove otherwise i.e. who cares what the contract says. Without people who are prepared to follow the contract and then kick up a stink if the client doesn't like it, we may as well give up. As KC says, the client has a right to terminate if they aren't happy.

Unfortunately, there are enough contractors who wont do this so client just gets one of those in. Not saying your not right but you cant win.

Same with contractors who work overtime for free. Plenty of those around too.

[GB9]

Bollox to that! The client would get an email reply stating that they are going against the terms in the contract. They are free to terminate (subject to the notice period) if they so wish.

And that's exactly what is needed. People who are prepared to work to what the contract says.

HMRC's default position is that we are employees, prove otherwise i.e. who cares what the contract says. Without people who are prepared to follow the contract and then kick up a stink if the client doesn't like it, we may as well give up. As KC says, the client has a right to terminate if they aren't happy.

[kingcook]

Work inside IR35 for now and look for a new contract

WSS, safest bet and its only for 2 months or so.

Bollox to that! The client would get an email reply stating that they are going against the terms in the contract. They are free to terminate (subject to the notice period) if they so wish.