No CoA

[northernladuk]

I think that is a pretty solid approach. I am hoping to god that they will take the amount of diligence you take as a factor to how hard they push you. The more you throw at them the less they will want to dig. When they approach a guy who says 'What contract revew? IR35?' they can go play with him.

I am sure this is just wishful thinking though..

I believe TestMangler has had dealings with CoA's and has had some practical experience with a review as well so his input would be very useful here. Also Mal's comments on the PCG's approach to CoA's would be nice as well.

[captainham]

IR35 really is a crock but then that's hardly anything new!

Best thing I can do is ensure I personally think I am outside IR35 in terms of the 3 main points at least (check), make sure I'm paid up with my insurance (check), tally-ho get on with it (check) and don't bother to lose any sleep over it (check...mostly).

[northernladuk]

I guess you're right. In the event of HMRC ever contacting the end client if I were to be investigated, they are only going to get an answer of "Naff off, talk to the agent as he was nothing to do with us", which serves two purposes:

1. End client is less likely to say something to HMRC that could be twisted by the Investigator into whatever suits them best.
2. Shows that they don't view me as an employee if they're not prepared to talk about my time there and instead only want to palm them off to the agency.

I am not to sure about that and have wondered about this. In a perfect world your client would just say 'refer to contract' but I believe in the JLJ case they shafted him by saying they wouldn't accept a sub (I think). The only way out is to make sure your working practices match your contract. If they do what ever they say will be documented and your in the clear.

HMRC may ask them about working practices and what they do with you. This is different to the contract. Yes the contract is between you an agent but what you do on site is between you and client.

[captainham]

I guess you're right. In the event of HMRC ever contacting the end client if I were to be investigated, they are only going to get an answer of "Naff off, talk to the agent as he was nothing to do with us", which serves two purposes:

1. End client is less likely to say something to HMRC that could be twisted by the Investigator into whatever suits them best.
2. Shows that they don't view me as an employee if they're not prepared to talk about my time there and instead only want to palm them off to the agency.

[northernladuk]

I don't really think you need to bother the client getting a mail to confirm there is no contractual agreement between your LTD and them. You have that evidence already in your contract with the agency. The fact there isn't a contract between you and the client says it all. No point pestering the client to prove something that is already a given.

I don't see anything wrong with getting the agent to sign your CoA. They should confirm it is right with the client and sign. They would be pretty stupid to sign it without consulting the client so has the same affect. You are still getting confirmation of arrangements.

The only hiccup could be the agent says he CBA and washes his hands of responsibility as he has no control of it. I would be interested to know from people that have these signed who signed it, agency or client.

[captainham]

So, a little while into my first contract, I've asked the end client if they would sign a Confirmation of Arrangements letter for me; I know there is debate over the usefulness of these, but I figured I had nothing to lose by asking.

Client has reviewed it, come back to me and said they can't sign it...as their contractual relationship is with the agent, not with my company, plus my own LtdCo is not a recognised supplier to their company (only the agency is).

I've asked them to state this in an email anyway, which needs to come from their Legal Dept, as I figured an email from them saying I have no direct contractual relationship with their company is something, I s'pose (i.e. they don't view me as an employee), although still quite strange bearing in mind the facts (i.e. my LtdCo is carrying out work for them).

If the worst ever comes, I guess I can let my IR35 insurance advisers decide if showing this email would do more harm than good, and either show it/bury it accordingly.