Reply to: Contract going past end date

[TheFaQQer]

Again, it depends on the wording however I had a similar situation a few years back.

The last job my dad had, there was a guarantee of a minimum number of days work each month.

About three months after he left, he realised that no-one had ever terminated the contract, so sent them an invoice for the time, with a letter suggesting that they agree to terminate the contract at the same time.

Easiest money he'd every earned - but as you say, it depends on the wording of the contract.

[blacjac]

If you have been turning up for work, and getting paid for work done, then I would say your original contract is still in place.

Again, it depends on the wording however I had a similar situation a few years back.

I had 1k per month guaranteed work in the contract, in a contract with 10 months left to run and no notice on my side.

The key here is the word "work" and not "pay".
They grantee to provide you with work, not to pay you when there is no work.


When my client didn't provide the 1k worth of work one month, I got the contract reviewed by my solicitor and then used it to terminate due to breach of contract (I was tied in to a one year contract with no notice, but didn't want to stay as there was clearly no work to do).


If you are hoping to use this clause to get paid for not doing work, you have misunderstood the clause.

If you are hoping to use the clause to get out of the contract, then you may be able to do that (depending on the wording) as they have now breached the contract.

All IMO of course - discuss it with your lawyer.

[psychocandy]

Oh dear. Doesnt sound good OP. Think they saw you coming.... :-(

[TheFaQQer]

Without seeing the whole contract (or even the relevant parts), no-one here can give you a relevant answer. However....

The problem (as I see it) is where the liability lies to provide the work.

For example, my current contract requires my company to provide a given number of days between the start of the contract and the middle of January. It was done this way because I needed flexibility over when I was working (for holidays), but they needed to ensure that I was going to get the work done. If the number of days wasn't worked, then it would be the fault of my company, and I would be in breach of contract.

From what you are saying (and I don't think it's unreasonable reading your follow up post), the client was obliged to pay for a minimum of 15 days work a month for the period that the contract was in place. It was the obligation of the client to provide that work, or pay for the 15 days.

The next point, then, is to determine whether there was a contract in place. September was fine, October, November - once you did that first day of the month, you would have had an implied contract (they let you do the work, so they were accepting the relationship). However, you did no work in December, so no implied contract is immediately obvious. Have you got anything in writing which implies that they were expecting you to be there and working in December? If so, then that strengthens your case somewhat.

I'd be surprised if you get anything for December from this, to be honest. I would stick an invoice in for December, and keep working for January. When you get the January money, then chase for December. When the client again says that there was no contract, then ask at what point did the contract for January start - there must have been one, because you did work and they paid for it.

If you want any money for December, then I think it's going to have to be through a legal route - and I would take proper advice before thinking about something like that. Jon Antel is a name that has been mentioned before on CUK for advice, but I don't know what he's like or what the charges are.

IANAL - speak to someone who is

[doodab]

I would point out to them that the reason they agreed to pay for a minimum 15 days in the first place was to retain your services, and clearly if they aren't going to pay they aren't going to retain them so next time they offer you a short term gig the rate will be higher and you won't guarantee to be available. Then next time they call you to offer you some work tell them you will do it for a higher rate (+20-25% is about right for very short term stuff) but they will have to start things a day later cos you are busy.

[northernladuk]

not really, the absolute best i could hope for is 10 days at the end of january

Maybe just keep quiet until you have been paid for Jan and then start legal proceedings for 15 days in Dec and 5 in Jan? The threat of legal action may force a compromise? You need the contract reading from top to bottom to make sure you have a case.

Rocking the boat right now might mean you losing out on 10 days more?

[SimonMac]

Oh dear.



Between you and me, my last contract had periods like this, on site, no 'work' to do. I still billed and they still paid.

For the benefit of any HMRC trolls through, I just made that up

It was more the "were you on site" rather than what you did

[BolshieBastard]

i work as a contractor, the company employing me had not issued a full contract since march with only an email in august to say the contract had been extended to the end of september (no contract was received) how ever they kept me employed until the end of November.

My contract was for a guaranteed minimum of 15 days work per month, however on january 3rd they have told me they will not pay the 15 days for December (there was no actual work although they suggested their would be).

I was of the impression that the contract/agreement was still running as i had received no official notice that it was being terminated or that a new end date had been reached.

Can i assume the contract was still in place because they kept me employed well beyond the last specified end date (30th September 2011)?

Oh dear.

For the 15 days you billed but did no work, were you on site?

Between you and me, my last contract had periods like this, on site, no 'work' to do. I still billed and they still paid.

For the benefit of any HMRC trolls through, I just made that up

[jonnybrussell]

Are you expecting any more work from them?

not really, the absolute best i could hope for is 10 days at the end of january

[jonnybrussell]

For the 15 days you billed but did no work, were you on site?

its hard to say i was 'on site'

its telecoms and we travelled around various locations throughout europe for projects. So when you return after a project you return home there isnt really an 'on site'. However during that time i still did a few bit and pieces for them from home (as was the norm) i still had the full test kit which i didnt return till late december so they could prepare it for the next project in january

[northernladuk]

Are you expecting any more work from them?

[SimonMac]

For the 15 days you billed but did no work, were you on site?

[jonnybrussell]

i am in a partnership.

the offer of 15 days guaranteed work came about because they wanted to make sure they maintained my services even when there wasnt any work. The work was generally short term projects (2 to 4 weeks) and they were finding it difficult to keep or even employ contractors because they were only looking at such short term projects and only getting paid for days worked.

I was offered the guaranteed days on a reduced daily rate. I realise now that not getting a specific extension and end date was idiotic - its the last time i am trusting !!!

However they have even admitted that they were expecting work for december which is probably why they want to make sure i was available - however now that the work didnt materialise in December they dont want to stick to the terms of the contract.

[jonnybrussell]

i am in a partnership.

the offer of 15 days guaranteed work came about because they wanted to make sure they maintained my services even when there wasnt any work. The work was generally short term projects (2 to 4 weeks) and they were finding it difficult to keep or even employ contractors because they were only looking at such short term projects and only getting paid for days worked.

I was offered the guaranteed days on a reduced daily rate. I realise now that not a specific extension and end date was idiotic - its the last time i am trusting !!!

However they have even admitted that they were expecting work for december which is probably why they want to make sure i was available - however now that the work didnt materialise in December they dont want to stick to the terms of the contract.

[northernladuk]

i work as a contractor,

Hmmm

the company employing me had not issued a full contract since march with only an email in august to say the contract had been extended to the end of september (no contract was received) how ever they kept me employed until the end of November.

They do not employ you. Refer to my first quote.

Technically the email will constitute as agreement and the fact they are happy you are on site means you have an implied contract on the same terms as the last one seen.

Saying that you not making sure they give you one in that length of time is very silly.

My contract was for a guaranteed minimum of 15 days work per month, however on january 3rd they have told me they will not pay the 15 days for December (there was no actual work although they suggested their would be).

Guaranteed amout of work? I guess you are inside IR35 or brolly..or in trouble?

So you are complaining they will not pay you 15 days for doing no work?

I was of the impression that the contract/agreement was still running as i had received no official notice that it was being terminated or that a new end date had been reached.

Can i assume the contract was still in place because they kept me employed well beyond the last specified end date (30th September 2011)?

Yes you can assume it is in place due to the email and implied contract but not having a signed copy will put you in a very difficult situation.

Also having a contract with gauranteed time is pretty rare and you need to read it very carefully. Check if it has an Mutualitiy Of Obligation section that says something about the client are not obliged to give you work and you are not obliged to take it. Most decent contracts should have this.

Whatever is in your contract if your client doesn't want to pay you are in a difficult position. The only way to get the money out of him is to threaten with legal action and if that doesn't work take it. This could be long and costly and in most cases we don't. The norm is not paying notice period though. This one might be different due to this gauranteed work clause.

Are you with Umbrella or Limited?