Reply to: Need Some Advice - A bit of a quandary

[RaLaCon]

Speak to your agency, in case they decided they didn't want to forward you the notice.......

if your agency has nowt to say on the matter then flag it up with the client

[MarillionFan]

Frankly I'd say nowt and turn up. Worst they can do is terminate same as if you flag it.

[Taita]

I am hoping some of you might have a view on my situation. Just wanted to get some tips on how to handle it.

My current contract runs till the 6th of January 2012. The client retains the right to terminate with one week's notice.

Currently the Project manager has no plans of any work for me post this week, 16th Dec 2011. The whole team is being disbanded as all deliverables are being completed. The Project manager isn't aware of my contract situation I feel. No-one is expecting me to turn up for work on Monday next.

Do I just continue as if nothing has happened and turn up to work on Monday. Or do i raise it with the client partner (who is responsible for contracts and timesheets). or raise it with the agent. i am not sure what the Client Partner's reaction will be when he sees a timesheet turn up next Friday. On the other hand I want to let sleeping dogs lie and not trigger the notice above till the client actually proactively do so. Especially as Christmas is coming up and it will be difficult securing contracts for a while.

Any thoughts appreciated.

What has the agency to say about this? They should be aware of the situation and should have tied it down in a business like manner or am I dreaming again?

[CiderEagle]

<pedant>
The client should have notified the agency. The agency should then have notified the OP in writing.
</pedant>

For the sake of a week, I would point out to the client that if they don't want you around next week, they should have terminated in writing to the agency with the week's notice.

Then play the nice guy and "let them off" - have the extra week off and leave on a good point. Hopefully they will remember that you wrote off the week of payment when they look for more resource in the future.

Came here to say this, pretty much. Always nice to leave on good terms, and you may well get a call in the New Year when they get themselves organised.

[rd409]

<pedant>
The client should have notified the agency. The agency should then have notified the OP in writing.
</pedant>

For the sake of a week, I would point out to the client that if they don't want you around next week, they should have terminated in writing to the agency with the week's notice.

Then play the nice guy and "let them off" - have the extra week off and leave on a good point. Hopefully they will remember that you wrote off the week of payment when they look for more resource in the future.

I would speak to the manager straight away to remind him that they need to give the notice to the Agency. I would then suggest the agent that, if they insist on getting the week's paid notice, they would be able to get that much more cut. The only situation this might go wrong, is that the agent gets the notice payment from the client, but does not pass that on to you; but that is a different story altogether.

My 2p.
Dave.

[TheFaQQer]

Have they given you notice in writing? or any other concrete form.

<pedant>
The client should have notified the agency. The agency should then have notified the OP in writing.
</pedant>

For the sake of a week, I would point out to the client that if they don't want you around next week, they should have terminated in writing to the agency with the week's notice.

Then play the nice guy and "let them off" - have the extra week off and leave on a good point. Hopefully they will remember that you wrote off the week of payment when they look for more resource in the future.

[Scrag Meister]

It sounds like they have effectively given you a week's notice. Give them a gentle reminder that it was supposed to be in writing.

WWS

Have they given you notice in writing? or any other concrete form.

It sounds not, as you seem to be confused about turning up on Monday.

I would speak to your sponsor to confirm one way or the other.

[Wanderer]

Currently the Project manager has no plans of any work for me post this week, 16th Dec 2011. The whole team is being disbanded as all deliverables are being completed. The Project manager isn't aware of my contract situation I feel. No-one is expecting me to turn up for work on Monday next.

It sounds like they have effectively given you a week's notice. Give them a gentle reminder that it was supposed to be in writing.

[northernladuk]

I read the forums every day, I read the threads on people being terminated, but it sounded like par for the course, part of being a contractor, so I might have missed the follow up posts since I expected them to be NLUK rage

Am glad you think it is par for the course and I would agree but most of the threads have a long discussion on MOO as the posters don't want to believe they have to just walk for nothing.

[Rabotnik]

You are kidding? Search for threads to do with people being terminated immediately with no notice. There was an epic that is still hanging around some where. MOO is discussed heavily in them.



It is not a 'no work, no pay claues' It is called Mutuality of Obligation. No 'guessing' about the paragraph you pasted. I would have expected more on this in your contract though.



That is a little extreme. It is such a grey area and many aspects are pointer and not breakers. If you think you are pretty well covered a bit of free booze won't tip the scales I think. With so much free booze I very much doubt anyone will remember you being there.

I read the forums every day, I read the threads on people being terminated, but it sounded like par for the course, part of being a contractor, so I might have missed the follow up posts since I expected them to be NLUK rage

I know the xmas party thing is minor, and people here thought I was mental for not going due to fear of the taxman, but I see everything as evidence either for or against me in any case that might arise, and I would rather have as much evidence on my side as possible, no matter how small.

Anyway, thanks for the advice, that's why I visit these forums every day

[northernladuk]

Thanks guys, I knew that they were in fact not liable to pay unless work was done, but I haven't seen any threads related to that recently, except a post from one of the old timers here who said you should just turn up and they will pay you since they are paying for the availability of you as a resource, even if there is nothing to do.

You are kidding? Search for threads to do with people being terminated immediately with no notice. There was an epic that is still hanging around some where. MOO is discussed heavily in them.

I read my contract I used from QDOS, and there is no "no work-no pay" clause, but I guess the company would be able to refuse payment based on this:
"The Client shall not be obliged to pay any fees to the Consultancy unless an invoice has been properly submitted by the Consultancy in accordance with sub-clause 9.1 of this Agreement and until the Client has verified the execution of the Consultancy Services.". So if they wanted, they could say "You haven't done any work, so I am not paying this invoice.", but fortunately for me, I don't see them doing that.

It is not a 'no work, no pay claues' It is called Mutuality of Obligation. No 'guessing' about the paragraph you pasted. I would have expected more on this in your contract though.

Edit: Also, I've read about IR35 pointers many times, and I try my best to operate as a separate company. I even didn't go to the open bar company xmas party last Tuesday, and won't be going to the xmas lunch this Friday (yea I know I could pay, but I'm wary of being anywhere near one of them). Takes real willpower to say no to free booze!

That is a little extreme. It is such a grey area and many aspects are pointer and not breakers. If you think you are pretty well covered a bit of free booze won't tip the scales I think. With so much free booze I very much doubt anyone will remember you being there.

[Rabotnik]

Thanks guys, I knew that they were in fact not liable to pay unless work was done, but I haven't seen any threads related to that recently, except a post from one of the old timers here who said you should just turn up and they will pay you since they are paying for the availability of you as a resource, even if there is nothing to do.

I read my contract I used from QDOS, and there is no "no work-no pay" clause, but I guess the company would be able to refuse payment based on this:
"The Client shall not be obliged to pay any fees to the Consultancy unless an invoice has been properly submitted by the Consultancy in accordance with sub-clause 9.1 of this Agreement and until the Client has verified the execution of the Consultancy Services.". So if they wanted, they could say "You haven't done any work, so I am not paying this invoice.", but fortunately for me, I don't see them doing that.

Edit: Also, I've read about IR35 pointers many times, and I try my best to operate as a separate company. I even didn't go to the open bar company xmas party last Tuesday, and won't be going to the xmas lunch this Friday (yea I know I could pay, but I'm wary of being anywhere near one of them). Takes real willpower to say no to free booze!

[AnthonyQuinn]

Thanks a lot

Thanks a lot. All the posts are very helpful. Having gone through the contract again, it does seem to indicate that, as advised above, there will not be much liability for the client to pay if there is no work.

I think I will wait till Friday and then ask the client for their intention of terminating the contract early or finding something else for me to do. Worst case will be an extra week's holiday in the run up to Christmas. Not bad. had anyway planned to take two weeks off for Christmas. This will make it 3.

I suppose turning up on Monday will look bad and will lead to an unpleasant discussion with the client (Never good). Good to be upfront where possible. If they consider themselves constrained to give a week's notice and paying for it, who am I to question that. :-)

[psychocandy]

Yes, the client can say no work.

But surely if they cant be arsed to inform you of said fact and you've turned up on a monday morning then I'd be pretty wassed off if they didnt pay me for that day at least.

[northernladuk]

The contractual position of the situation is that if you turn up on Monday and there is no work, then they can turn you away and not pay you.

WTFS +2

Many clients, I believe, wouldn't realise that and would just see that they need to give a week's notice, so will pay you that instead, or will find something to do for that last week.

WTFS +10. If more clients knew how to handle contractors it would be a much more difficult type of work. Thank god they don't.

Whether that helps, hinders or has no impact on your IR35 status is another discussion which has been had ad nauseum.

Most definitely WTFS +some more.