Help...agency hell!

[TheFaQQer]

Maybe it's me just being naive and having little to do with umbrellas but surely it'd be hugely difficult for an umbrella to effectively opt-out a contractor. Most contractors don't get into detailed enough discussions with agencies until far too late in the process for an opt-out to be anything other than a waste of time, umbrellas especially as they often don't get involved until contract negotiations right at the end.

I guess it depends on when the umbrella gets involved. If you have been with an umbrella for a while, then it's possible for them to have worked this out early on in the relationship and get it sorted.

It's possible, but I agree that it's unlikely. So few agents understand it anyway, I think that the number of people who are genuinely opted out (whether Ltd or umbrella) is incredibly small. I've only ever had one agent ask before sending the CV over, and even then they didn't get anything in writing before doing so.

[craig1]

No, you're not.

If the employee and the umbrella both opt out of the agency regulations, in writing, before being introduced to the client, then you can be opted out legitimately. To imply that being through an umbrella makes you automatically inside is a myth.

(For the record, I think the OP is inside the regulations, as are most contractors, as I doubt that the opt out was done properly if at all)

Maybe it's me just being naive and having little to do with umbrellas but surely it'd be hugely difficult for an umbrella to effectively opt-out a contractor. Most contractors don't get into detailed enough discussions with agencies until far too late in the process for an opt-out to be anything other than a waste of time, umbrellas especially as they often don't get involved until contract negotiations right at the end.

[northernladuk]

Are you sure the OP isnt just trolling here?

Now this is proper trolling...

OK. Starting contract on Tuesday and noticed the contract mentions Employers liability insurance, public liabilty insurance, professional indemnity insurance.

Guess I need to sort this out. Is it absolutely imperative that I do this BEFORE tuesday or can it wait a few days?

[TheFaQQer]

Second, if you are going through an umbrella, you're caught by the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003. This limits the time the agency can hold onto you for "introductory rights".

No, you're not.

If the employee and the umbrella both opt out of the agency regulations, in writing, before being introduced to the client, then you can be opted out legitimately. To imply that being through an umbrella makes you automatically inside is a myth.

(For the record, I think the OP is inside the regulations, as are most contractors, as I doubt that the opt out was done properly if at all)

[nomadd]

Are you sure the OP isnt just trolling here?

This^

Thought I'd stumbled into General by accident.

[northernladuk]

Are you sure the OP isnt just trolling here?

Reading it a few times you could think some troll has taken every silly comment from a non contractor and put it in to a single mail but generally they don't put so much effort in to it. Each issue the OP mentions is synonymous with someone who doesn't have a clue about contracting so would make sense. A tad extreme making the OP look pretty silly yes, but somewhat believeable as well.

[psychocandy]

Are you sure the OP isnt just trolling here?

[northernladuk]

<Great Stuff from Dave.>

Excellent post!! I couldn't have done better myself... not really I couldn't, not even close... LOL

OP would do well to read Dave's post in great detail.

I would have guessed from this that the OP is with a temping agency and not a contractor looking at some of the gaffs in the post but the Umbrella bit puts paid to that. First contract maybe? I know people that work at councils have a different mind set to private sector but never heard of the contractors being the same.

[tarbera]

Council

Thanks your post made my day

I see no issues with anything you have posted just the norm.

Your limited company can pay you as much holiday pay as you want but my council tax is not going to pay for it


Lol

[rd409]

Not happy with my agency....

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I work for council through an agency, which i am registered as a limited through an umbrella company.

First thing, you can not go limited through an umbrella. Operating through a limited company is very different to using an umbrella.

I recently discovered from my 'contact consultant' at the agency, that i am apparently not entilted to holiday pay.

You are a contractor. You are not entitled to any holiday pay. You are paid only for the time you work. If you are operating through umbrella, then they deduct some amount from your monthly salary to cover this holiday pay. This is the reality.

Further to this, 3 of my fellow agency workers - 2 of which are with the same agency - revealed to me their hourly rate, which is nearly 50% higher than mine, for doing the same job. I have even trained 2 of them.

What somebody else is getting paid is not your business. You accepted the role for a rate that was good for you at that time. If you want more money, wait till extension, and then negotiate. Just because someone else is having a better rate, doesn't mean you will get it as well. Don't get me wrong here, I am not taking the agent's side, but it is just the way this game is played.

On initial contact about the role, i told them the hourly rate i was looking for but they said they could not go that high. I now know that this was far far far from the truth and they have had less experienced workers in the same role, in the same office on the higher rate. Two more people are due to start the role in early January, these jobs have been advertised by another agency at - guess what - the higher rate!

The rates also depends on availability. It may be a case, that when they selected you, they had a larger pool of candidates to pick from, and hence the agency could afford to cut down your rates. Or you may have been unaware of this common agency tactic to maximise their margins. Now when the other people started, the general availability may have been different. Remember if one of the candidates is willing to work for £100 per day, then the agent will try to get the best candidate for similar rate. I am just guessing here, but the reality is, there are no fixed rate for any roles at any given time.

I have been told, even after the agency advertising the roles showed great interest in taking me on - that it is legally not allowed, as they have introductory rights. The council have decided against having anymore staff from my current agency, as the terms and conditions of any of us going to perm. roles were completely unrealistic. I spoke to the agency about this and they told me...'Tough....'...no, really....they did!

It depends on what contract you signed. If you are operating through limited company, then whether you signed an opt out? If you have been at client site for 14 weeks or more, then the restrictive clause is not enforceable. Generally, this kind of restrictive clause have a time limit. Anything more than 6 months can be challenged in court if need be. I am not sure what is the conditions for using umbrella, but there would be someone along who will throw some light on that as well.

To summarise, you just have to take this as an experience, and make sure you negotiate hard next time.

Dave.

[craig1]

Not happy with my agency....

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I work for council through an agency, which i am registered as a limited through an umbrella company.
I recently discovered from my 'contact consultant' at the agency, that i am apparently not entilted to holiday pay. Further to this, 3 of my fellow agency workers - 2 of which are with the same agency - revealed to me their hourly rate, which is nearly 50% higher than mine, for doing the same job. I have even trained 2 of them.
On initial contact about the role, i told them the hourly rate i was looking for but they said they could not go that high. I now know that this was far far far from the truth and they have had less experienced workers in the same role, in the same office on the higher rate. Two more people are due to start the role in early January, these jobs have been advertised by another agency at - guess what - the higher rate! I have been told, even after the agency advertising the roles showed great interest in taking me on - that it is legally not allowed, as they have introductory rights. The council have decided against having anymore staff from my current agency, as the terms and conditions of any of us going to perm. roles were completely unrealistic. I spoke to the agency about this and they told me...'Tough....'...no, really....they did!
Anyone at all have any ideas?

Thanks....

First up, if you're going through an umbrella, they're the ones you speak to about "holiday pay". Nothing to do with the agency.

Second, if you are going through an umbrella, you're caught by the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003. This limits the time the agency can hold onto you for "introductory rights".

Everything else is just the perils of dealing with an agency as a "contractor".

[catmanhog]

Not happy with my agency....

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I work for council through an agency, which i am registered as a limited through an umbrella company.
I recently discovered from my 'contact consultant' at the agency, that i am apparently not entilted to holiday pay. Further to this, 3 of my fellow agency workers - 2 of which are with the same agency - revealed to me their hourly rate, which is nearly 50% higher than mine, for doing the same job. I have even trained 2 of them.
On initial contact about the role, i told them the hourly rate i was looking for but they said they could not go that high. I now know that this was far far far from the truth and they have had less experienced workers in the same role, in the same office on the higher rate. Two more people are due to start the role in early January, these jobs have been advertised by another agency at - guess what - the higher rate! I have been told, even after the agency advertising the roles showed great interest in taking me on - that it is legally not allowed, as they have introductory rights. The council have decided against having anymore staff from my current agency, as the terms and conditions of any of us going to perm. roles were completely unrealistic. I spoke to the agency about this and they told me...'Tough....'...no, really....they did!
Anyone at all have any ideas?

Thanks....