Reply to: Typical contractor rates for being on-call

[psychocandy]

Then id start actively looking for another contract to negotiate from a position of strength. Personally part of the reason Im a contractor is so I dont have to put up with bull tulip.

My other concern for you in this situation is that you would appear to be under direction and control. Do you consider yourself not caught by IR35?

Yes. This is true and I'm advocating you let yourself be shafted but I agree with OP to a certain extent.

EVERY contract I've ever had, the client, on a day-to-day basis pretty much wants you to fit in with the permies. All they see you as is a resource they can get rid of much easier.

Therefore, rocking the boat, causing a fuss is a sure fire way of getting the boot. Like I said, not saying you should bend over and take it but theres a definite middle ground to find between being shafted and being helpful.

After all, thinking like a business, if a little bit of 'extra' on your behalf gets you another 3 month contract then surely this is good business sense whereas kicking up a fuss and getting no extension is not?

[paddytheirishman]

Hate to break it to you - you are disposable. That's why the client took on a contractor not a permanent employee.

You either take the sh1t or you don't - it's up to you what you do. If they aren't going to recognize that you can say no to them, then what makes you think that they will pay any attention to what you want to get paid for out of hours work?

I'm disposable? Well, yes I always knew that! EVERYONE is disposable. Thanks for your insightful and constructive feedback.

[Scrag Meister]

Last time I did it, it was 50% of hourly rate for being on call. Went to full rate if the phone rang with a min charge of two hours when called.

You saying you got 50% of hourly rate per hour for doing nothing?

Nice work if you can get it.

[downsouth]

having done on call for several companies i always look at it from the perspective of what is the frequency of actually being called out. not knowing what you are actually supporting so you might get a few evening type calls, the odd overnight batch issue to sort out, a bit of support/upgrade work on a weekend

it doesn't amount to much tbh, if it does then mention about flexible working hours, take an early finish on a friday etc

manage the client professionally, lets the permies moan about the extra hours, how it messes their social time, winge, wine, moan etc, mop up the slack they dont want and it will soon add up financially

if you in a rotating team, how often are you actually on call?

Get remote access, take the cash and if that annoyed look for another job as you are disposable.

[TheFaQQer]

It is true that I can say no, but the consequence of this is probably that I will be threatened with the termination of my contract. They like to play hardball and don't have any value on contractors, we are seen as disposable. I could call their bluff, but with a family and a mortgage I don't want it to get to that.

Hate to break it to you - you are disposable. That's why the client took on a contractor not a permanent employee.

You either take the sh1t or you don't - it's up to you what you do. If they aren't going to recognize that you can say no to them, then what makes you think that they will pay any attention to what you want to get paid for out of hours work?

[paddytheirishman]

Yes, team is a mix of permanent staff and contractors. Everyone is expected to take their turn and provide 24/7 cover and refusal to do so would not be taken kindly. It's not like we are incentivised to participate with a decent rate, we are being forced to do so at a crap rate.

[d000hg]

Being forced to do this stuff is not what a contractor should expect. Is the team a mixture of perms and contractors and all are expected to 'pitch in'?

[paddytheirishman]

I am actively looking at the moment and there is one potential contract that I'm hoping will come through. If it does, then I'm moving. IR35 doesn't come into play in Ireland, but there has been talk of it. I don't work exclusively for this company, I also get some small consultancy jobs, but my main source of income is this particular company so I don't want to p*ss them off (well, not until I have another contract lined up)

[escapeUK]

It is true that I can say no, but the consequence of this is probably that I will be threatened with the termination of my contract. They like to play hardball and don't have any value on contractors, we are seen as disposable. I could call their bluff, but with a family and a mortgage I don't want it to get to that.

Then id start actively looking for another contract to negotiate from a position of strength. Personally part of the reason Im a contractor is so I dont have to put up with bull tulip.

My other concern for you in this situation is that you would appear to be under direction and control. Do you consider yourself not caught by IR35?

[paddytheirishman]

That's reasonable although 1.5X or more for time actually working might be better, and charging for time spent travelling if required.

It IS optional if you are not an employee... in fact even if you were it would be a major sticking point.
You might well have other paying work/clients in evenings & weekends, as a contractor.

It is true that I can say no, but the consequence of this is probably that I will be threatened with the termination of my contract. They like to play hardball and don't have any value on contractors, we are seen as disposable. I could call their bluff, but with a family and a mortgage I don't want it to get to that.

[d000hg]

Last time I did it, it was 50% of hourly rate for being on call. Went to full rate if the phone rang with a min charge of two hours when called.

That's reasonable although 1.5X or more for time actually working might be better, and charging for time spent travelling if required.

Thanks for all the feedback. I have sent an email outlining my dissatisfaction and am awaiting a response. If this was optional, I wouldn't be bothered with it, but it is expected that everyone will take their turn. Even with VPN access, getting woken in the middle of the night would be a major pain in the ar*e and disturb the whole house, so I really don't want to do it anyway.

It IS optional if you are not an employee... in fact even if you were it would be a major sticking point.
You might well have other paying work/clients in evenings & weekends, as a contractor.

[VirtualMonkey]

I usually will ask for 2 hours as a fee regardless of being called or not. If I get called then the first two hours is free.
All done in 0.5 hour chunks so the first 2 calls can possibly take the whole two hours 'free time' even if they're short calls.

Doesn't happen very often though and is usually more trouble than it's worth IMHO

My last place went with 2 hours fee per day then whatever i got called on was billed in addition. That was for 2 months. Then they asked me to do it for free........

[psychocandy]

I find that some clients normally expects to pay contractors same as permie rates for this.

I had one once who asked me to go on call for something like £30 a night (same as permies). OK I said thinking it'd at least be a good will thing.

Then I found out that even if I got called in to the office (I lived an hours drive away) I would only get paid for when I was in the office and not travelling time.

So I could get called in, fix something in 15 mins and get 0.25 hourly rate (about £9 at the time) for spending 2 1/4 hrs of my time, driving 100 miles, paying £5 on Severn bridge toll. Told them no thanks....

[TheFaQQer]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have sent an email outlining my dissatisfaction and am awaiting a response. If this was optional, I wouldn't be bothered with it, but it is expected that everyone will take their turn. Even with VPN access, getting woken in the middle of the night would be a major pain in the ar*e and disturb the whole house, so I really don't want to do it anyway.

You're a contractor, no?

Here's your response when pushed

I'm sure that it's very nice for other people to run their business in this way, and all credit to them. However, I don't operate my business in that manner. If you want to engage my business to provide on-call support, then that can be done, but we need to sort out an additional contract to cover those charges, since it's not specified in the contract we have at the moment.

Alternatively, you need to push back to what the contract says - £x per hour. Since there is nothing in there that covers out of hours or being on call, then your out of hours and on-call rates are £x per hour.

[paddytheirishman]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have sent an email outlining my dissatisfaction and am awaiting a response. If this was optional, I wouldn't be bothered with it, but it is expected that everyone will take their turn. Even with VPN access, getting woken in the middle of the night would be a major pain in the ar*e and disturb the whole house, so I really don't want to do it anyway.