Reply to: Contract terminated with immediate efect - no written notice? What are my rights?

[The Master]

Agree here. I've done stints for two blue chip telcos and both of those gigs were arranged direct with the hiring project manager, in one case by me phoning around and in the other a recommendation by a mate already in there. The project manager then told HR to get their preferred agency to sign me up on the pre-arranged margin.

[errorista]

You really are niaive if you think it's that simple. Most FTSE 100s won't entertain leapfrogging procurement processes just to satisfy the whims of a particular project manager. They'd much rather go by the book and start the whole re-hiring process again through the official channels.

Completely agree with Underscore2 on this one. Most agencies that I used in Banking were supplied to me by HR after the dept manager agreed to hire.

Believe it or not, they absolutely do not want to go through re-hiring once they have decided on a suitable person. Its a waste of time.

Come to think of it no agency has procured a job for me in over a decade of contracting. More like the other way around :| Responding to agency postings in Jobserve is a serious waste of time. Its not worth the bother selling yourself to agencies for all the business they offer. You are much better off using your energy to sell to the end user.

As Underscore2 says - networking - its the business way.

2c
error

[Denny]

I've worked for the top5 ftse comps - and with every single one I've ensured new contracts via internal Programme Managers not by following due process. That's how it works when you are a REAL business - take the guys out for afew pints - sure enough a week later agents call you - they want you to start on Monday. I do like your idea though. "Oh hello Mr Director of IT I'm sorry but that project has been delayed by 6 weeks and a cost of £250k as we didn't want to leap frog the process"

Well I don't know what sort of world you're living in, but that certainly hasn't happened in my field. I guess it depends if you're a business critical techie or a high level support bod like me.

[Underscore2]

Erm....

You really are niaive if you think it's that simple. Most FTSE 100s won't entertain leapfrogging procurement processes just to satisfy the whims of a particular project manager. They'd much rather go by the book and start the whole re-hiring process again through the official channels.

I've worked for the top5 ftse comps - and with every single one I've ensured new contracts via internal Programme Managers not by following due process. That's how it works when you are a REAL business - take the guys out for afew pints - sure enough a week later agents call you - they want you to start on Monday. I do like your idea though. "Oh hello Mr Director of IT I'm sorry but that project has been delayed by 6 weeks and a cost of £250k as we didn't want to leap frog the process"

[Denny]

Easily done. I had to double check! No harm, no foul as they say. Belt and braces. Cliche...cliche etc. etc.

Let's face it, both terms are pretty meaningless when you read them and they could easily be interchanged by accident.

[Denny]

In the real word if you get an "in" with a manager you really dont need to worry about the agency. Phone him - tell him you can;t wait to get back in - he'll get his HR bod to fix this prompto.

You really are niaive if you think it's that simple. Most FTSE 100s won't entertain leapfrogging procurement processes just to satisfy the whims of a particular project manager. They'd much rather go by the book and start the whole re-hiring process again through the official channels.

[maverick]

Easily done. I had to double check! No harm, no foul as they say. Belt and braces. Cliche...cliche etc. etc.

[Denny]

Surely it is a Contract FOR Services and not a Contract OF Services that you want to be outside IR35. Taken from PCG site :-

...First and foremost, it is essential to have a contract for services with your business, not a contract of service or employment contract with you personally. ...

Must have got them round the wrong way.

[maverick]

I would look at your contract again. Were you opted out and were given terms to sign that clearly imply you were contractor OF services (implies true self employment) and not under the control of the client instead of contracted FOR services (bum on seat psuedo employee within IR35) in which case you should have stayed opted in and got paid via a brolly or paid yourself a market rate salary based on all your fee income minus 5% allowable dispensations.

If you are engaged on terms implying the former but have been terminated early for reasons other than your professional competency (and it seems as if fitting into the team was the reason given which has feck all to do with your professional competency, unless your manner and demeanour was so disruptive that it would generate problems to achieve objectives), I would consider suing the agency for the entire contract length. It doesn't matter if their own contract was not back to back with the clients and arranged with them that you were a bum on seat pseudo temp instead of a real buisness as their terms with you implied. The fact is, the agency have obtained services by deception by making it difficult to act out the terms of your contract properly and you can sue for terminations based on 'personality clashes and other 'personal for services reasons' like your face didn't fit and other permie type bunkem.

If you were a pseudo temp (within IR35 with no legtimate rights to operate your limited company with NI free divis) you could try going to the DTI (provided you remained opted in) but the most you would get is the notice period owed to you. It does seem, however, that even if you were acting as a real business if you actually had no or little work to do on site then you really can't complain. This is the risk any business would have to embrace because they would assume you would have other work to slot in during those times you weren't busy and weren't causing you unreasonable hardship. Different story though if you were a bum of seat pseudo employee expected to be int he office 5 days a weeks and not able to work elsewhere without displaying a 'lack of commitment to the role' which could justifiably get you terminated.

It's worth looking into. I've done this when similar has happened to me and won. The agency normally give up fighting when they know you mean business and if it's only a week's money they will probably shell out themselves without rocking the boat with the client.

Surely it is a Contract FOR Services and not a Contract OF Services that you want to be outside IR35. Taken from PCG site :-

...First and foremost, it is essential to have a contract for services with your business, not a contract of service or employment contract with you personally. ...

[Underscore2]

Correct

In the real word if you get an "in" with a manager you really dont need to worry about the agency. Phone him - tell him you can;t wait to get back in - he'll get his HR bod to fix this prompto.

[Mailman]

I believe IBM now only use Hays as the preferred IT supplier. It's unlikely a company that size would allow a manager to employ a contractor directly

I doubt that wouldbe an issue because all that would happen is the contractor would have to use Hayes once the manager has signed them up (happened with my last contract, manager came direct to me then I had a choice of agents off their PSL to use, of which Hayes was on - which I didnt use!).

Regards

Mailman

[whyme]

I believe IBM now only use Hays as the preferred IT supplier. It's unlikely a company that size would allow a manager to employ a contractor directly

[Underscore2]

Ignore the agents

and talk to the manager again - if he wants you in - go via another agent. Just phone Lorien or someone - they'll do it for you.

[BlasterBates]

Focus on getting a new contract, but chase up the weeks pay, you are entitled to it, and if they don't cough up threaten legal action. Send an invoice, giving them reasonable time to pay, then a reminder, then threaten legal action and then go and see a lawyer. If your contract says 1 weeks notice you're entitled to it. Ignore letters or comments about "negative" feedback, that's just baloney.

[eternalnomad]

Guy's. Thanks for your replies. Sorry for the multiple posting but wasn't sure where the best place to post was.

I did do a whole week and not just one day and they've said I'll get paid for that.

I feel like the guy from the agency has been taking the piss, because when I said to him 'what about my notice period?', he said 'oh just forget about it, this kind of stuff happens all the time and look for a new job'

He knows I'm new to contracting and he seems to have given me false info as well, because I've read the contract and it does clearly state they have to give me written notification, but he said a phone call was enough.

I'm pissed off because I turned down another contract last week, which has now gone. I knew when I got the contract that it was on a 1-week notice period and all I want is what's due to me. I did one week's work and feel they should pay me for the notice period, especially as I've done absolutely nothing wrong and the manager from Manchester was very keen for me to start.

Denny: Do you really think I can sue them for the length of the entire contract?

Cheers,
Sij

Edited because I think I know who you are and its not "fair" to discuss on a public forum