Reply to: What to do next?

[ddaft]

General banking IT hours are 9-6ish with early starts for releases and often support rotas to support the trading desks from 7.30/8. Hedge funds vary wildly with hours I have heard though depending on the setup but I think Gloucester is one of the more reasonable ones. I know someone there who came from a bank who is very happy with the move and says he wouldnt go back to a bank.

[rashm2k]

Barcap is very much a contract house these days but beware even by city standards they are volatile. Constantly churning both perms and contractors and i heard a rate cut is imminent there to follow UBS and RBS.

I heard gloucester research is a nice place to work. Software house like mentality but with longer hours.

Have you considered a couple of years stint with one of the finance tech consultancies like Sapient or Infusion? They wouldn't pay as much but get you some decent experience to set you up for more lucrative contract later down the line.

Ah I see what he meant - for the moment I'm going to be a permie.

Do you mean gloucester research is longer compared to barcap and other IB's - thats quite a statement given that IB have long working hours anyway!

BTW I'm working for a constultancy at the moment so it would be not be much point moving to another constultancy when I can just work in finance with my current company. I'd only consider an IB, but the agent has recommended the hedge fund.

[ddaft]

Barcap is very much a contract house these days but beware even by city standards they are volatile. Constantly churning both perms and contractors and i heard a rate cut is imminent there to follow UBS and RBS.

I heard gloucester research is a nice place to work. Software house like mentality but with longer hours.

Have you considered a couple of years stint with one of the finance tech consultancies like Sapient or Infusion? They wouldn't pay as much but get you some decent experience to set you up for more lucrative contract later down the line.

[kingcook]

I mean Barcap are less likely to crumble and dissappear whereas hedge funds crop up all the time? (At least thats the impression I get from the news).

I think stek is trying to say that the words "job" and "security" are something that employees are concerned with, not contractors/business (wo)men.

[rashm2k]

Job security?

I mean Barcap are less likely to crumble and dissappear whereas hedge funds crop up all the time? (At least thats the impression I get from the news).

In which case, the BarCap role, IMHO.

EDIT: Mind you, I have turned them down. Twice.

obviously job security is a pro for Barcap, but is the pay signinficantly better at an IB? Is the training much better? Or is the route to contracing quicker?

BTW why have you turned them down?

My advice is to specialise in one area and have another area for backup. For example I am specialised in SQL/BI (that's all the Microsoft SQL and BI toolset). I also have 2 years .NET experience should I need to go down that route (it has also proved useful in getting roles as well).

The more niche your area is the more money it pays generally. If you specialise in certain Oracle or IBM products for example you will be much better off than somebody like me.

I'll be specialising in Java development (Hibernate, Spring and J2EE), but I'm not the average Java dude, I do similar stuff I do at work in my spare time as well, I'm always messing with my Linux distro, VMware, Android Apps, QtApps for Meego etc.

[stek]

Well I'm looking to pursue two positions one is at a Hedge fund (DPFM Glousecter Rwsearch) and the other is at a Investment bank (barcap), both are working with high frequency/quant analysis positions.

Which may/is the better one to go for? Key considerations for me are job security, learning opportunities, pay and route to becoming a contractor quicker.

Job security?

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Given I've got only 2 years experience (J2SE 6, ECLIPSE, SQL, XML, LINUX, HUDSON, AGILE and usual stuff you expect on projects), could I get a contract - or would potential clients not even consider me because I'm so young/inexperienced?

My advice is to specialise in one area and have another area for backup. For example I am specialised in SQL/BI (that's all the Microsoft SQL and BI toolset). I also have 2 years .NET experience should I need to go down that route (it has also proved useful in getting roles as well).

The more niche your area is the more money it pays generally. If you specialise in certain Oracle or IBM products for example you will be much better off than somebody like me.

[nomadd]

Key considerations for me are job security, learning opportunities, pay and route to becoming a contractor quicker.

In which case, the BarCap role, IMHO.

EDIT: Mind you, I have turned them down. Twice.

[rashm2k]

Well I'm looking to pursue two positions one is at a Hedge fund (DPFM Glousecter Rwsearch) and the other is at a Investment bank (barcap), both are working with high frequency/quant analysis positions.

Which may/is the better one to go for? Key considerations for me are job security, learning opportunities, pay and route to becoming a contractor quicker.

[LittlestHobbo]

Hmm... Just about to start my 23rd year as a contractor (unbroken run; no permie in that.) I re-skill all the time on my clients sites. No idea how you'd survive as a contractor otherwise.

yep likewise, generally i get myself into a position where im trusted, identify a new technology im interested in (pays well) and has use to them and bobs uncle. Your told to run with it. as a tractor you become adept at learning quickly. Experience helps alot with this. 10 years in, new technologies, languages and patterns take a fraction of the time to pickup than when i was only a short time in. if i was looking for a decent code monkey id hire a contractor with a couple of years experience as it would be cheap. id expext most contractors to have at least 5 years production experience. you cant beat that experience of learning the lessons when its all gone t*ts up...

[nomadd]

There is no way you can acquire new skills within a contract.

Hmm... Just about to start my 23rd year as a contractor (unbroken run; no permie in that.) I re-skill all the time on my clients sites. No idea how you'd survive as a contractor otherwise.

[Basil Fawlty]

Not that I am suggesting, but you can definitely say it was a contract role for x month, instead of you were a permie.

Sorry to hijack the thread...but what's the general consensus on doing the above ?

I'm in the process of exiting from a short stint as a permie (huge mistake ). It's been about 18 months, so it's probably long enough to not raise too many eyebrows, and it's better to be honest. However, if it were a contract my CV would be a heck of a lot neater !

[rd409]

I guess the real question is which is quickest and most effective way to becoming a contractor, I don't want to contract for the sake of it. I don't have the skills/experience to become a contractor now, I need experience in J2EE, Spring and Hibernate, before i can effectively do that. (Manchester/Leeds area contract rates are around £300 which is fine but all ask for J2EE/Spring/Hibernate experience).

There is no way you can acquire new skills within a contract. Most often if not always, you keep an eye on other stuff at client site, and try to get some hands on it. I was doing mainly .Net when a permie, but got introduced to some php, and Seibel in another part of the company. I managed to be-friend people working in those technology, and get some training or help with how things work. I then add those skills on my CV at novice or self taught level, and offer myself at a considerable low rates to get some real life experience in those technologies.
Because of those reductions, the client is well aware of your intentions. So if you can do a task @ £200 a day in 5 days, that an experienced contractor does in 3 days @500 a day, the client is still saving some money.
But again, I would only recommend this for technologies or skill set that has sever shortage of professionals. Or you might be stuck at a lower rate for quite a long period.

If I join an IB and then leave after a year to do contracting will it look bad on my CV?[/QUOTE]

Not that I am suggesting, but you can definitely say it was a contract role for x month, instead of you were a permie.

[rashm2k]

One thing that you can look at apart from reduced rate is working from any location. Most companies outside the big towns struggle to hire good developers. You might want to look at this market to build up your portfolio. There are companies within M25 but not directly linked to the public transport, who still struggle to attract good resources. So I assume, this is even worse when you go further away from other towns and cities.

I guess the real question is which is quickest and most effective way to becoming a contractor, I don't want to contract for the sake of it. I don't have the skills/experience to become a contractor now, I need experience in J2EE, Spring and Hibernate, before i can effectively do that. (Manchester/Leeds area contract rates are around £300 which is fine but all ask for J2EE/Spring/Hibernate experience).

If I join an IB and then leave after a year to do contracting will it look bad on my CV?

[rd409]

Given I've got only 2 years experience (J2SE 6, ECLIPSE, SQL, XML, LINUX, HUDSON, AGILE and usual stuff you expect on projects), could I get a contract - or would potential clients not even consider me because I'm so young/inexperienced?

One thing that you can look at apart from reduced rate is working from any location. Most companies outside the big towns struggle to hire good developers. You might want to look at this market to build up your portfolio. There are companies within M25 but not directly linked to the public transport, who still struggle to attract good resources. So I assume, this is even worse when you go further away from other towns and cities.